Combined: Jury Duty Pt 1-4

Prosecutors And Jury Manipulation

0:00 SPEAKER_16: Prosecutors in Washington state referred to jury selection as theirs to manipulate.

0:06 SPEAKER_16: In open court, they boast that jury duty is their dog and pony show.

0:13 SPEAKER_16: Reminding oneself of the perversive corruption within law enforcement among judges and prosecutors may help to even out the injustice that is destroying society.

0:26 SPEAKER_16: Welcome to this combined edition of the Consider Podcast.

0:31 SPEAKER_16: Here we examine jury duty, not the gee, I appreciate prosecutors, police, and judges, and will follow the law, no matter what is promoted by the state, but the kind that stands on truth, opposes corruption, and emotional manipulated by the court at all costs.

0:53 SPEAKER_16: What follows is not theory, it is a direct look at courtroom reality, where the evidence reveals how far some in authority will go to protect their own narrative rather than pursue justice.

1:08 SPEAKER_16: The following is a combination of podcast episodes.

1:13 SPEAKER_16: The audio versions have been combined into one continuous production.

1:19 SPEAKER_16: Video formats are available at www.consider.info.

1:26 SPEAKER_16: A little backstory on this series concerning leadership.

1:31 SPEAKER_16: Washington State, as is reasonably understood, is saturated with political ideology.

1:38 SPEAKER_16: As a result, the King County prosecutors used a clearly obvious ongoing hate crime against Timothy Williams to destroy a Christian church.

1:50 SPEAKER_16: These productions directly present what was, as one would expect, the actual truth that was blocked from entering the equation or the courtroom.

2:02 SPEAKER_16: The discussions are grounded in the full video recordings and complete transcripts of the court trial in question.

2:10 SPEAKER_16: Specifically, Washington State, Seattle, King County Courtroom, with the main players of Judge Laurie K.

2:18 SPEAKER_16: Smith and one of five prosecutors appointed for the takedown.

2:24 SPEAKER_16: With prosecutor Jason Simmons as the spearhead for the corruption of power.

2:29 SPEAKER_04: Jury selection.

2:30 SPEAKER_04: October 2006, Washington State.

2:35 SPEAKER_04: Seattle King County Prosecutors, Courtroom 4G.

2:39 SPEAKER_04: Prosecutor Paul Sewell.

2:41 SPEAKER_04: Have you been selected for jury duty in the past?

2:44 SPEAKER_04: Then you have been through this dog and pony show before.

2:47 SPEAKER_04: The Consider Podcast.

2:49 SPEAKER_04: Examining today's madness, folly, and wisdom.

2:52 SPEAKER_04: www.consider.info.

3:01 SPEAKER_19: The Justice and Legal segment on the Consider Podcast is only concerned with calling all individuals to repentance.

3:06 SPEAKER_19: No matter which side of the bar one is on, the demand is for repentance in accordance with Amos 524.

3:12 SPEAKER_19: Let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never failing stream.

3:16 SPEAKER_19: Nothing discussed should be considered legal advice.

3:18 SPEAKER_19: Want legal advice?

3:19 SPEAKER_19: Pay a lawyer.

3:20 SPEAKER_19: Want justice?

3:20 SPEAKER_19: Pray to the holy God.

3:22 SPEAKER_19: As the living God recorded in Deuteronomy 16.20, all must follow justice and justice alone.

3:27 SPEAKER_19: The listener assumes all responsibility for their actions or refusal to act in accordance with justice and justice alone.

3:33 SPEAKER_19: Because the legal system hides their corrupt deeds in darkness, any discussion is fraught with inadequate information.

3:38 SPEAKER_19: The listener should keep in mind that the news media only communicates what sells.

3:42 SPEAKER_19: Finally, make note that the vast majority of what is called legal is in fact not lawful.

3:46 SPEAKER_19: The Consider Podcast.

3:47 SPEAKER_19: Examining today's wisdom, madness, and folly.

3:50 SPEAKER_19: www.consider.info.

3:55 Timothy: Let us consider a little deeper the dog and pony show known as jury duty.

4:01 SPEAKER_20: Welcome to the Consider Podcast, where the whole gospel message is used to examine today's wisdom, folly, and madness.

4:09 SPEAKER_20: Acts 520.

4:11 SPEAKER_20: Go, stand, and speak to the people in the temple the whole message of this life.

4:16 SPEAKER_20: Join the hosts Timothy and Jacob as they pick up their cross to follow Jesus, as we pray that God enlightens the mind, according to verse 25 of Ecclesiastes chapter 7.

4:28 SPEAKER_20: So, I turned my mind to understand, to investigate, and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things, and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly.

4:39 SPEAKER_20: Ecclesiastes 7.25.

4:42 SPEAKER_20: The Consider Podcast, examining today's wisdom, folly, and madness with the whole gospel.

4:49 SPEAKER_20: www.consider.info.

Snack Judgments And Judge Leniency

4:53 Timothy: How's it going, Jacob?

4:54 Timothy: It's going good.

4:56 Timothy: What's your favorite snack food?

4:58 Timothy: Your your like all-time top comfort snack food that's probably not good for you, snack food.

5:05 Timothy: A snack food or just like dessert?

5:07 Timothy: I'll take your pick.

5:08 Jacob: We're not on court testimony type level yet.

5:11 Jacob: Classic chocolate chip cookies.

5:13 Jacob: I'll go for a classic homemade chocolate chip cookies, but I'm picky.

5:16 Jacob: Does it have to be burnt around the edges, or are you more of a like uh My wife makes them how I like them?

5:21 Timothy: Okay, well then I'm not going to venture into that.

5:24 Jacob: Well, I'm just it's it's hard to describe other than I know what I like.

5:28 Timothy: Well, chocolate chip cookies aren't my favorite, but my favorites are the ones, you know, where they're kind of blackened around the edges.

5:35 Timothy: Uh my wife, when she obviously was alive kind of thing, used to overcook a few just for me, because most people don't like that.

5:41 Timothy: So you can go into some psychoanalysis.

5:44 Timothy: Psychoanalysis.

5:46 Timothy: Psychoanalysis.

5:47 Timothy: Can you believe it is snowing out there?

5:49 SPEAKER_24: It's pretty crazy.

5:50 SPEAKER_24: Spring snows.

5:51 Timothy: Lovely.

5:52 Timothy: Almost want to stop and well couldn't go playing it.

5:54 Timothy: Alright, snacks.

5:55 Timothy: We're talking about snacks.

5:58 Timothy: If you were on trial and you were found guilty, whether you're actually guilty or not, that's a whole nother topic.

6:06 Timothy: That's kind of what we're talking about.

6:07 Timothy: But you're found guilty, right?

6:09 Timothy: Judge is gonna sentence you.

6:11 Timothy: Yes.

6:11 Timothy: When would be the best time for you to receive your sentence?

6:18 Timothy: Um when's the best time?

6:20 Timothy: Or, you know, conversely, when would be the worst time to receive your judgment?

6:26 Jacob: Uh I don't know.

6:27 Jacob: The way they do it now is you're found guilty, you're hauled away, and then you come back for your sentencing trial, I believe it would be called.

6:35 Timothy: I don't it's not a trial, but you're sentencing and your hearing, but it's two separate things.

6:41 Timothy: They split it up.

6:42 Timothy: Oh yeah, they split it up.

6:43 Timothy: So what at you're I don't know if you're doing your usual delay asked questions or not.

6:48 Jacob: This is well, so but if I'm g if I'm if I'm it's really pretty simple.

6:53 Jacob: What time of the day would you want that judge to sentence you?

6:56 Jacob: Physically time of the day?

6:57 Jacob: Yeah.

6:58 Jacob: Oh, uh it doesn't matter.

7:00 Jacob: I'm guilty.

7:00 Jacob: I'm gonna be pretty distraught.

7:02 Jacob: Wrong.

7:02 Timothy: Oh, Turkey Breath.

7:04 Timothy: You are totally wrong.

7:06 Timothy: Okay.

7:06 Timothy: They have done studies.

7:08 Timothy: Judges are much more lenient right after they've had a snack.

7:14 Timothy: Oh, okay.

7:15 Timothy: It's like studies out there everywhere.

7:17 Timothy: Okay, sure.

7:18 Timothy: Uh well, no, to to be lenient right after they've had their, and they have an hour and a half lunch break, folks, by the way.

7:25 Timothy: An hour and a half lunch break.

7:27 Jacob: Specifically lunch, not snack.

7:28 Timothy: No, snack time or lunchtime.

7:30 Timothy: Okay.

7:31 Timothy: Doesn't really matter.

7:32 Timothy: Okay.

7:32 Timothy: Uh anytime after they've had their belly full, whether it be their chocolate chip cookies or snack or whatever, or even their lunch little break, they are far more likely, judges are far more likely to be lenient and cooperative.

7:47 Timothy: As the day progresses after lunch, as you near the time when they, oh, they want to go home.

7:53 Timothy: And, you know, I think most of them are like three o'clock.

7:55 Timothy: But anyway, three to five.

7:56 Timothy: They want to go home, they want their dinner meal.

7:58 Timothy: That is the worst time.

8:00 Timothy: The the studies show you almost get nothing.

8:03 Timothy: In terms of leniency, it's like zero right after lunch wears off.

8:07 Timothy: So snacks is where it's at with uh these judges.

8:10 Timothy: So go ahead and play the snack clip here to let me put this in perspective, and we're gonna look at Philippians chapter three, right around verse 18.

8:21 SPEAKER_05: You've heard of snap judgments.

8:24 SPEAKER_05: Well, watch out for snack judgment.

8:27 SPEAKER_05: Want mercy from the court?

8:29 SPEAKER_05: Wait until after lunch.

8:31 SPEAKER_05: Judges strike guilty more often before snack time.

8:35 SPEAKER_05: Judges strike guilty more often before lunch break.

8:38 SPEAKER_05: Judges strike guilty more often before dinner time.

8:42 SPEAKER_05: After snack, you ask?

8:45 SPEAKER_05: After lunch?

8:46 SPEAKER_05: You languish to know?

8:48 SPEAKER_05: Judges are more lenient after their little snacks.

8:51 SPEAKER_05: Judges are more lenient after their hour and a half lunches.

8:55 SPEAKER_05: Conclusion.

8:55 SPEAKER_05: Philippians 3 18-19.

8:58 SPEAKER_05: Many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.

9:01 SPEAKER_05: Their God is their stomach, and their glory is their shame.

9:06 SPEAKER_05: Is it justice or just us?

9:10 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.

9:12 SPEAKER_05: www.consider.info where the rubber meets the road.

9:21 Timothy: Let's look at Philippians 3.18 verse through 19.

9:25 Timothy: A little bit more detail there, Jacob.

9:26 Timothy: You want to go ahead and read those two verses?

9:28 Jacob: Uh Philippians 3.18.

9:31 Jacob: 19.

9:32 Jacob: 1819.

9:33 Jacob: For as I have often told you before, and now say again, even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.

9:42 Jacob: Their destiny is destruction, their God is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.

9:47 Jacob: Their mind is on earthly things.

9:49 Jacob: Their God is their stomach.

9:51 Timothy: You know, jurors, they judge with their flesh, whatever they feel like on the outside.

9:56 Timothy: Whereas your judges, it has to do with their stomach.

10:00 Timothy: They have their little special social clubs, and in fact they get discounts.

10:05 Timothy: A good old boys and girls club kind of routine.

10:08 Timothy: It's just clear from the facts and from the stats.

10:11 Timothy: Now, can you get people to argue the facts and the stats?

10:13 Timothy: Of course.

10:14 Timothy: But it's it's just pretty obvious that if you want some leniency from a judge, right after lunch is the time to happen, or even a good, decent snack uh would take place.

10:24 Timothy: Because why?

10:25 Timothy: Their God is their stomach and they refuse to repent.

10:28 Timothy: What do you think, Jacobs?

10:29 Timothy: That all sound valid?

10:30 Timothy: Am I way off like on the end of the earth kind of routine?

10:34 Timothy: Oh no, I I think it sounds valid.

10:36 Timothy: Or more like pirate guidelines.

10:38 Timothy: You know, I think everybody's familiar with pirate guidelines anymore.

10:41 Jacob: I think uh, yeah, generally speaking, people's uh mood is always better after their little tummies are full.

10:47 Timothy: All right, good.

10:48 Timothy: So I got you lured into that.

10:49 Timothy: You're in it, we're in agreement here, right?

10:51 Timothy: Okay, yeah.

10:52 Timothy: All right, let's I'm gonna go a little bit deeper, and this one's gonna like uh shoot me in the foot.

10:58 Timothy: So let's play that little warning clip because this is gonna get offensive to some, let's just put it that way, more so than others.

11:05 Timothy: Go ahead.

11:08 SPEAKER_05: The noise ahead is offensive.

11:11 SPEAKER_05: Double, double offensive, offensive.

11:14 SPEAKER_05: Watch the host dance as he shoots himself in the foot.

11:18 SPEAKER_05: Galatians 4.16.

11:20 SPEAKER_05: Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

11:24 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.info where the rubber meets the road.

11:37 Timothy: It's common knowledge.

11:39 Timothy: I mean, people see that in their own homes, right?

11:41 Timothy: If dad's had a big meal and you need to approach him for something.

11:44 Timothy: I mean, we all pick and choose those times when mom, dad, brother, sister who are in a good mood, right?

11:50 Timothy: I mean, we make jokes about that fact.

11:51 Timothy: So we're clearly a people, judges or whatever, are influenced by their belly, how full it is, how much they want to go home or what they want to do.

11:59 Timothy: They're just fleshly, worldly.

12:01 Timothy: Because it takes the cross of Christ for all of us to get past those kinds of things where belly doesn't mean anything, where flesh doesn't mean anything, our emotions don't mean anything.

12:11 Timothy: That's just God has to begin that process of putting us to death in order that we might really make true judgments.

12:17 Timothy: Alright, that said.

12:18 Timothy: So is it really true that snacks affect our life, Jacob?

12:23 Timothy: Do snacks, yeah, snacks certainly affect our life.

12:26 Timothy: Could you give me a like one big scripture that proves, like the without a shadow of a doubt, at least among those who know Jesus, that this is a fact.

12:35 Jacob: Uh Jacob and Esau, and he wanted the lentil soup and he sold his birth rate.

12:40 Timothy: That's a good one.

12:40 Timothy: I go further back to Genesis when Eve came in and she did the cooking.

12:44 Timothy: Say, here's the fruit.

12:46 Timothy: I made the mistake one time in a sermon calling it an apple.

12:48 Timothy: Oh, I got in trouble, because it's not really necessarily an apple.

12:52 Timothy: It just says fruit.

12:52 Timothy: Yeah.

12:53 Timothy: Um, but I'm not bitter.

12:54 Timothy: I, you know, that's just how it goes.

12:56 Timothy: Anyway, we were influenced by food.

12:58 Timothy: That's how we fell in the Garden of Eden.

13:00 Timothy: So I'm not going to try and prove this to secular people, but it's it's very clear even in society.

13:05 Timothy: If the judge is happy, you're going to be more happy, so on, right?

13:09 Timothy: Yeah.

13:10 Timothy: All right, let's let's go on a little bit forward.

13:11 Timothy: We've talked about when jury duty, they have a whole list of questions.

13:15 Timothy: We're eventually going to dive into that, but they want to know what news you you watch, where your friends are, what you do, all kinds of stuff.

Demanding Disclosure From The Powerful

13:24 Timothy: It's just you kind of have to full declosure everything you are just to get on the jury pool, right?

13:29 Timothy: Correct.

13:29 Timothy: Well, it's about time we have full disclosure on judges and prosecutors.

13:34 Timothy: I know I had emailed or contacted King County prosecutors going, yeah, can I get the drug tests for the prosecutors?

13:40 Timothy: Uh-oh, we don't do drug tests.

13:42 Timothy: We don't do drug tests on judges.

13:44 Timothy: How come they don't have to live by the minimum basic standards that we all live with?

13:49 Timothy: That should be just random drug tests.

13:52 Timothy: We should know whether they're on counseling, are they taking prescription drugs for antidepressants?

13:57 Timothy: Right?

13:57 Timothy: Wouldn't that seem reasonable and logic?

13:59 Timothy: It would seem very reasonable.

14:00 Timothy: Are they alcoholics?

14:01 Timothy: Are they diabetics?

14:02 Timothy: Or we could just go down the line, right?

14:05 Timothy: Correct.

14:05 Timothy: Well, here's the part where I'm going to shoot myself in the foot.

14:08 Timothy: But it's factual as it can be.

14:11 Timothy: And why?

14:12 Timothy: No woman is really qualified to be a judge or a prosecutor.

14:17 Timothy: Because they operate, their mind is set in a more emotional place than a man.

14:24 Timothy: Is that not a fact, Jacob?

14:26 Timothy: That is correct.

14:27 Timothy: When a fetus is in the womb and the hormones are flowing and it's it's going toward being a female, the brain takes on a different function, a different way that it works, correct?

14:37 Timothy: Correct.

14:37 Timothy: Than the male.

14:38 Timothy: When the male grows up and until we start messing with it, everybody has, and this isn't to look down on a woman, it's to say that we're each made different.

14:47 Timothy: So why do you think our trials are becoming more and more about emotional issues than the actual facts of a trial?

14:56 Jacob: I think the other uh statistical fact is that the uh America as a whole, and yes, I will lump in the judicial system and the powers that be, are all becoming more feminine.

15:07 Timothy: Correct.

15:08 Timothy: Everybody.

15:09 Jacob: Masculinity is gone.

15:10 Jacob: And not only that, they're anti-male.

15:12 Jacob: Correct, they're anti-male.

15:13 Jacob: You you should not be masculine.

15:15 Jacob: You should not be a men man.

15:17 Jacob: You should be emotional like us, aka women.

15:21 Timothy: So every judge should have to state, is it her time of the month?

15:24 Timothy: There's been no studies on that.

15:26 Timothy: How does that affect?

15:27 Timothy: We know that that anyone who has daughters or raised daughters knows when it's their time of the month.

15:32 Timothy: Do we not do they not know?

15:34 Timothy: Yeah.

15:35 Timothy: The whole household knows.

15:36 Timothy: They know.

15:36 Timothy: The women know.

15:38 Timothy: Their body goes through all kinds of biological changes.

15:41 Timothy: What about menopause or just normal fluctuations up and down that are going on?

15:47 Timothy: That's just basic biology and facts.

15:51 Timothy: And so women jurors, women judges by nature are more emotionally driven, and you'd want it that way.

16:00 Timothy: You know, again, I'm gonna put this is a positive thing.

16:02 Timothy: I know there's a lot of negative stuff, but you you want a mother who mothers their children, right?

16:08 Timothy: Well, sympathy.

16:10 Jacob: Well, it is positive if you're actually going to be a mother.

16:14 Jacob: Uh, that's a totally different, separate little sort of issue, of course, which is in America uh at an alarming rate, the women are all working and have careers and no one's actually raising your child.

16:24 Jacob: You're turning them over to uh daycares, the public school system.

16:29 Jacob: Anyway, so it's it's it's yeah, anyways.

16:31 Jacob: Um I'm throwing that in there because that's but you know what I mean?

16:36 Jacob: Because yeah, because women aren't raising their kids, somebody else is raising their kids.

16:40 Jacob: But yes, you want them to be emotional because they're there, the emotions are there to help raise the kids in that capacity.

16:47 Timothy: Correct.

16:47 Timothy: And then you need the husband and the man in the house who brings in a logical, they complement each other.

16:52 Timothy: That's supposed to be what's going on, and that's where love between a man and a woman takes place.

16:57 Timothy: There's an appreciation that we're not made the same, and you would I wouldn't want to marry me, let's just put it that way.

17:03 Timothy: Uh don't worry, girls, I'm not on the market, so you're safe.

17:06 Timothy: You get my so we get women become one like one judge goes, I wanted to be a judge or a lawyer since I was eight years old, which means then she sacrificed being a mother.

17:16 Timothy: And so all of those emotions, and and if she dropped her kids off at daycare, that means she's sacrificing her children for the sake of her career.

17:24 Timothy: There's not even the basis of what would be called motherly love.

17:28 Timothy: And all of that emotion has gotten twisted up and perverted around and brought into the courtroom, which has nothing to do with facts of a crime, and that's why you find this constant emotion.

17:40 Timothy: Oh, they were a good person, or they're this person, or this harm was done.

17:43 Timothy: That's all emotional baggage junk that never allows you to actually get to the truth of the matter.

17:49 Timothy: I can remember many times the father comes in, he's more, you know, he's going to discipline the child, he wants the facts, and the mother's not over here debating the facts normally.

17:58 Timothy: But he's a child, he's only three, he's only four, is naturally defensive for the child, whether it's based on reason or logic or not.

18:05 Timothy: And I'm not saying they don't balance each other, but when you get a courtroom where you've got women prosecutors, women on the jury, I mean, the case we went through, it wasn't the the jury themselves stated didn't have anything to do with the facts, didn't have anything to do with this over here.

18:20 Timothy: It had to do with that the the accuser happened to baby talk like a 10-year-old on the stand.

18:27 Timothy: Those are all motherly instincts that have nothing to do with make judgments within a courtroom.

18:34 Timothy: And that's one reason, among many reasons.

18:36 Timothy: Is that to say that men were perfect?

18:38 Timothy: No, there's been plenty of injustice coming down through the ages, but what we're seeing now is a huge influx and increase.

18:45 Timothy: Just look at the way all that's going on in the United States, look at the corruption that's going on.

18:50 Timothy: That's because it's a feminization of the judicial process.

18:55 Timothy: Any comments on that now that I've shot myself in the foot?

18:58 Timothy: No.

18:59 Timothy: Anything you want to add before we kind of we're gonna play Jan's interview again if she's the one that heard about the dog and pony show.

19:08 Timothy: So I want to go through that a little bit here and there and kind of jump in here and there.

19:13 Timothy: Anything, though, that before you want to go with anything else, Jacob?

19:17 Timothy: No.

19:18 Timothy: Well, I do.

19:18 Timothy: Let's go ahead and play.

19:20 Timothy: Play no Roman soldier, and let's discuss that for just a minute.

19:23 Timothy: Okay.

19:27 SPEAKER_05: Remember, no Roman soldier at the crucifixion repented.

19:31 SPEAKER_05: Remember, no governing authority repented of killing court evidence.

19:36 SPEAKER_05: Remember, no prison guard who whipped Jesus repented.

19:40 SPEAKER_05: Do remember it was a criminal crucified next to Jesus on the cross that repented.

19:46 SPEAKER_05: Luke 23, 41.

19:48 SPEAKER_05: The criminal declared, I am punished justly, getting what my crimes deserve.

19:53 SPEAKER_05: Remember me, Jesus.

19:55 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.info.

20:02 SPEAKER_05: Where the rubber meets the road.

20:09 Timothy: I'm gonna tie that bumper with this next one.

20:12 Timothy: Jacob, go ahead and play Did Not Say.

20:19 SPEAKER_05: What did Jesus not say?

20:21 SPEAKER_05: Jesus did not say support your local police.

20:24 SPEAKER_05: Jesus did not say remember law and order.

20:27 SPEAKER_05: Jesus did not say lock the scum of the earth up.

20:30 SPEAKER_05: What Jesus did say is I was a stranger and you did not invite me in.

20:37 SPEAKER_05: I needed clothes and you did not clothe me.

20:40 SPEAKER_05: I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.

20:44 SPEAKER_05: Matthew 2543.

20:47 SPEAKER_05: Submit to governing authorities, but look after those in prison.

20:52 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.

20:55 SPEAKER_05: www.consider.info.

20:59 SPEAKER_05: Where the rubber meets the road.

21:04 Timothy: Jacob, you ever been in a um Christian bookstore and found a book on jury duty?

21:11 Jacob: No.

21:11 Timothy: Really?

21:12 Timothy: Not one.

21:14 Timothy: No.

21:14 Timothy: Think about the way I I did the same thing, and so I, you know, I went out and started searching the web, see if I could find a book, because I want to make sure it's like I've never ever one time seen a book on jury duty for Christians.

21:28 Timothy: How can that possibly be?

21:31 Timothy: Is there not so much throughout all of Scripture that God is a God of justice?

21:37 SPEAKER_06: Yes.

21:37 Timothy: That He's coming with justice.

21:39 Timothy: Yes.

21:39 Timothy: That every prosecutor and judge, bailiff, minion that works there should be very afraid about working within the justice system.

21:48 Timothy: You know, you really kind of have to be an almost a fool about your soul to even go, you know, I want to be a policeman or I want to be working in the judicial system, really.

21:56 Timothy: You you want to stand before God and say, these were all of my judgments.

22:00 Timothy: What I did.

22:00 Timothy: But anyway, back to my original point.

22:02 Timothy: There is not, is I could not find a single book on jury duty for Christians.

22:09 Timothy: Now think about that.

22:10 Timothy: What are the ramifications?

22:11 Jacob: What does that tell us, Jacob?

22:13 Jacob: Well, I and only because I don't even know if there's any secular books like how to be a good juror.

22:19 Jacob: Are those out there?

22:21 Jacob: There are a few.

22:22 Timothy: They looked very the covers looked really old and they looked self-published.

22:26 Timothy: Speaking from experience, they weren't quality books.

22:29 Timothy: Let me add a little warning here.

22:31 Timothy: Please, no one to a lawyer, go write a book on jury duty for Christians.

22:34 Timothy: You don't have the right perspective.

22:36 Timothy: Don't do it.

22:36 Timothy: Don't do it.

22:37 Timothy: If you work within the legal system, you are not qualified to write a book on jury duty and justice for Christians.

22:43 Timothy: So please don't do that.

22:46 Timothy: Fortunately or unfortunately, it depends how you look at it.

22:48 Timothy: God hasn't called me to write a book on it, but it's just not out there.

22:51 Timothy: It goes back to what did Jesus say?

22:54 Timothy: He didn't say support law and order.

22:57 Timothy: He didn't say, you know, go visit a prosecutor or visit your local police station or vote conservative values.

23:05 Timothy: What did Jesus say, Jacob?

23:08 Jacob: Uh well, now I'm thinking of the two bumpers because they were.

23:12 Jacob: Yeah, that's right.

23:13 Timothy: Uh well go visit those in prison.

23:16 Timothy: Correct.

23:17 Timothy: That's who you're supposed to look at.

23:19 Timothy: Now the other bumper, did any of the Roman soldiers who would have been the police at the time repent and crucifying Jesus?

23:24 Jacob: Okay, none of them definitely there's no documentation that they repented.

23:28 Jacob: There's only the would it be an omission after he died?

23:32 Jacob: The soldier says, surely this was the Son of God or something very close to the R.

23:36 Jacob: Sure.

23:36 Timothy: They they acknowledged that I'm just saying.

23:40 Timothy: You don't hear him go on and go, Man, I can't believe what I did.

23:43 Timothy: You know, and that it can be built in.

23:45 Jacob: I well, no, so and that's the only question.

23:48 Jacob: Absolutely.

23:48 Jacob: You are correct in scripture.

23:50 Jacob: There is no they repented.

23:53 Jacob: There is no record.

23:54 Jacob: There's no record.

23:54 Jacob: There's no record.

23:55 Jacob: I'm not sure.

23:56 Jacob: Hopefully, maybe that one there's only well, there's only one record of one soldier.

24:00 Jacob: So even if we're even even if we were to you know hypothesize or hope that the one soldier that said that did go repent, but that's still one out of a lot that were there.

24:11 Timothy: Correct.

24:12 Timothy: And again, scripture's not recording that they actually repented.

24:16 Timothy: Correct.

24:16 Timothy: Well, you know what's really messing this up is Hollywood has all of its versions of somebody repenting who there's no record of them repenting.

24:23 Timothy: The the movie The Robe is based on that kind of concept.

24:27 Timothy: Yes, that's true.

24:27 Timothy: So we get this in our head that, like, oh, the sure that they repented.

24:33 Timothy: You know, you have to kind of almost say if there was a Roman soldier or one of the Pharisees or the Sadducees or somebody that actually repented of condemning Jesus, you would have thought that would have been recorded.

24:46 Timothy: Now am I totally discounting that it's that it wasn't possible?

24:49 Timothy: No, no, that's not what I'm saying.

24:51 Jacob: But well, your point is still valid, even with my little like, well, maybe there was one guy who did.

24:56 Jacob: The point is still valid, though, even if that was the case.

24:59 Jacob: Like, even if you were like fine, Hollywood, you can have your one guy who repented.

25:03 Timothy: Correct, correct.

25:04 Timothy: You you can go with that.

25:05 Timothy: Either way, one way to word it is well, God didn't consider it significant to put in there.

25:10 Timothy: But he did put it to put Jesus to say, visit me in prison.

25:15 Timothy: Correct.

25:15 Timothy: And by the way, I've tried to get into prisons with the gospel and never had much success very long, because you know why, Jacob?

25:24 Timothy: Uh they probably weren't inviting you in.

25:26 Timothy: Well, they wouldn't let me in.

25:27 Timothy: Okay.

25:28 Timothy: But guess who wouldn't let me in?

25:30 Timothy: Who wouldn't let you in?

25:31 Timothy: The Christian pastors that worked in the prison.

25:35 Timothy: So that was the first set of options.

25:37 Timothy: Yeah.

25:37 Timothy: But can you imagine some um warden give me a call and say, Yeah, we really need the full gospel that shows no favoritism to guard or prisoners or anybody else?

25:46 Timothy: Can you come in here and lay out the whole gospel, like lay it down?

25:49 Timothy: It's not gonna happen.

25:51 Timothy: No.

25:51 Timothy: Now I'm really deviating.

25:53 Timothy: All right.

25:53 Timothy: Any comments where we kind of dive a little bit into Jan's interview concerning jury duty being a dog and pony show?

26:01 Jacob: No.

The Milgram Experiment In Courtrooms

26:03 Timothy: Remember, I was talking about that experiment.

26:07 Timothy: It's called the authoritative experience, where they take a group of people, I'll see if I can explain it.

26:13 Timothy: We're gonna play a clip here in a minute.

26:15 Timothy: It's a little bit long, but people need to really listen to understand what goes on.

26:18 Timothy: This has been documented over and over again.

26:21 Timothy: It would say I'm a psychologist, I bring somebody in, and it's all play acting on one side.

26:28 Timothy: What happens is there's a volunteer sitting at a panel, and on the panel's a like, say, 30 different buttons, and each button goes up higher in terms of voltage.

26:38 Timothy: In another room is an individual that works for me, and every time a button gets flipped, you kind of scream equal to the voltage of the button.

26:50 Timothy: Am I making sense?

26:51 Timothy: Yeah.

26:53 Timothy: What I do as a psychologist is I stand there, say with a clipboard or a white jacket, or I'm the official, the authority in it, and the volunteer that's sitting here in front of the buttons doesn't know this is going on, but you've been told every time they go a little bit higher with the voltage, you scream louder.

27:11 Timothy: And what they discovered is as long as the authority figure was there saying, Oh no, go ahead, trust me, go forward, go up to the next button, go the next button.

27:19 Timothy: Most of the people would go wind up going to the extreme level where the guy is screaming in the other room, going, No, stop, stop, stop.

27:27 Timothy: This video I'm going to play is very mild compared to actually what took place.

27:30 Timothy: If you if you listen to it or watch or anything, the people are like screaming in the other room.

27:35 Timothy: Of course, the voltages isn't going up, it's all play acting.

27:38 Timothy: And I believe even at some point, the person in the other room that's doing the screaming just actually shuts up as if he died, and the authority figure is still saying, Yeah, keep going, keep going, and the person keeps going and keeps going.

27:51 Timothy: This is such a famous story that when I was in college for a short period of time, didn't graduate, that's a whole different sub-story.

27:58 Timothy: This experiment's like repeated all the time and every semester because it's it's it's one of the few verifiable things you can do that's just solid.

28:05 Timothy: It came out of the World War II where you know the Nazis got people who do all kinds of horrendous things.

28:10 Timothy: So there was this interest in study in like, well, why would people do this and how far would they go?

28:17 Timothy: Why this is important is, and I'll say Seattle, King County prosecutors, Washington State are the most some of the most manipulative jury aspects going on.

28:29 Timothy: But yeah, I say it with qualification because it's probably true in every state, and if you look at what certain political people are going through, it's very clear that jury manipulation at is a very high point.

28:43 Timothy: The next step is just literally just lynch mob type territory.

28:48 Timothy: Anything before I we actually played this video clip, Jacob?

28:51 Timothy: No.

28:51 Timothy: Alright, go ahead and it's called the Milgram Experiment.

28:55 Timothy: And let's go ahead and listen to this or watch it if you've got video.

29:00 SPEAKER_01: Are ordinary people able to do terrible things?

29:03 SPEAKER_01: And if so, how many would give a strong electric shock to an innocent other just because they are following an order?

29:10 SPEAKER_01: To answer these questions, we can look at the controversial work of a man who just wanted to find answers to his family's horrific past.

29:23 SPEAKER_01: In 1961, Stanley Milgram, a young psychologist, wanted to find out how ordinary citizens were able to commit acts of unspeakable evil in Nazi Germany.

29:34 SPEAKER_01: His theory?

29:35 SPEAKER_01: Some people do horrific things because they obey even the most wicked leaders.

29:40 SPEAKER_01: To test his theory, Milgram designed a clever experiment that changed our understanding of human behavior forever.

29:48 SPEAKER_01: The Milgram experiment involved three people.

29:51 SPEAKER_01: An authority called the experimenter, who was dressed in a lab coat to appear powerful, a volunteer who was assigned to be the teacher, and a victim, the so-called student.

30:02 SPEAKER_01: The teacher was the test subject, whereas the experimenter and student were both actors.

30:09 SPEAKER_01: Following orders, the teacher would test a student who was sitting in another room by asking them questions.

30:15 SPEAKER_01: For every wrong answer, the experimenter would ask the teacher to inflict an electric shock up to a life-threatening 450 volts.

30:25 SPEAKER_01: Before he began, Milgram asked his colleagues what they expected the outcome to be.

30:30 SPEAKER_01: Almost all of them agreed that only a few of the volunteers would obey and inflict electric shocks on innocent others.

30:37 SPEAKER_01: What do you think?

30:38 SPEAKER_01: Would anyone administer shocks higher than 300 volts?

30:43 SPEAKER_01: Milgram then advertised his experiment as a study on memory and learning at the campus of Yale University.

30:49 SPEAKER_01: People signed up without any idea of what they were really getting themselves into.

30:55 SPEAKER_01: The experiment began with the volunteers meeting the other participants.

30:59 SPEAKER_01: The volunteers then pulled a card to draw their role.

31:02 SPEAKER_01: Little did they know that they could only draw the teacher.

31:05 SPEAKER_01: Next, they would be given a sample of a light electric shock in order to experience firsthand what the others would have to go through.

31:14 SPEAKER_01: To start, the experimenter and the teacher were seated in one room, and the student was strapped to a chair in an adjacent room.

31:21 SPEAKER_01: The teacher and student were able to communicate, but not see each other.

31:27 SPEAKER_01: The experimenter then gave the teacher a list of questions.

31:30 SPEAKER_01: The teacher would then read out the questions and the student would press a button to indicate a response.

31:35 SPEAKER_01: For every false answer, the teacher would administer a shock, starting at 15 volts and increasing in 15 volt increments up to 450.

31:45 SPEAKER_01: What the teacher didn't know was that the student didn't actually receive any shocks.

31:49 SPEAKER_01: Instead, a tape recorder was used to play various responses.

31:53 SPEAKER_01: In the beginning, the teacher would hear a protest or bangs against the wall.

31:58 SPEAKER_01: If shocks would increase, the reactions would become louder, and in case someone would go all the way, the learner would fall silent.

32:07 SPEAKER_01: In case the teacher became hesitant and asked to stop, the experimenter would resort to the following four prompts.

32:13 SPEAKER_01: First, he would say, please continue.

32:16 SPEAKER_01: If that was unsuccessful, he would go on with the experiment requires that you continue.

32:21 SPEAKER_01: Then, it is absolutely essential that you continue.

32:24 SPEAKER_01: And lastly, you have no other choice.

32:28 SPEAKER_01: You must go on.

32:31 SPEAKER_01: Along the way, the volunteers displayed signs of extreme tension, such as sweating, trembling, and even uncontrollable laughing fits.

32:39 SPEAKER_01: The experiment would be stopped only after all four prompts had been used, or the maximum voltage of 450 volts had been given three times.

32:50 SPEAKER_01: Milgram found that, of all participants, 100% gave at least 300 volts, and 65% went all the way to 450 volts.

33:01 SPEAKER_01: The experiment was later criticized for being unethical because it deceived innocent people into performing what seemed to be terrible acts of violence.

33:09 SPEAKER_01: However, his experiment was successfully replicated many times, involving different populations and leading to similar findings.

33:18 SPEAKER_01: Milgram himself left us with this to think about.

33:21 SPEAKER_01: It may be that we are puppets, puppets controlled by the strings of society.

33:26 SPEAKER_01: But at least we are puppets with perception, with awareness, and perhaps our awareness is the first step to our liberation.

33:36 SPEAKER_01: What do you think?

33:37 SPEAKER_01: Would you follow or question the orders if you were one of Milgram's participants?

33:41 SPEAKER_01: And what can we as a society teach future generations to help prevent horrific acts that can happen when ordinary people blindly follow an authority?

33:49 SPEAKER_01: Let us know your thoughts in the comments below.

33:59 Timothy: Well, she asked for comments.

34:00 Timothy: Oh yeah.

34:00 Timothy: Change society.

34:01 Jacob: You know, I think you had briefly mentioned that when you were in college, which would be quite a few number of years ago, that they I there's no way they're even going over this experiment in college today.

34:14 Timothy: Well, correct.

34:15 Timothy: I mean it's common knowledge.

34:16 Timothy: No, they're studying, because it looks official.

34:19 Timothy: And you know, if somebody wants to do a project and psychology class, maybe I'd still be shocked.

34:26 Jacob: I would not disagree.

34:27 Jacob: I would wager that most psych they don't even probably I mean, even just by watching the video, right?

34:34 Jacob: Even to anybody, you'll be like, whoa, that's crazy.

34:37 Jacob: Whoa, that's interesting.

34:38 Jacob: Like, you know, and I don't know.

34:40 Jacob: I'm still shocked if any college nowadays even has that.

34:45 Jacob: Now the colleges nowadays, it would all be about LGBTQ plus experiments and all sorts of weird stuff.

34:52 Timothy: Not disagreeing with you.

34:54 Timothy: Let me just kind of add to that a little bit.

34:56 Timothy: No, no.

34:57 Timothy: They're aware of this and they use it to manipulate juries.

35:00 Timothy: Correct.

35:01 Timothy: See, back then they looked at this and go, this is bad.

35:03 Timothy: How can we change society?

35:05 Timothy: How can we keep from becoming Nazis?

35:06 Timothy: Well, the answer to that is you can't.

35:08 Timothy: That's the quick answer without Jesus Christ.

35:10 Timothy: It's not going to happen.

35:11 Timothy: But on the flip side, Mark Larson was a prosecutor.

35:14 Timothy: He was an expert in eyewitness testimony, meaning he wasn't using that to discern who was truth and who was lying.

35:22 Timothy: He was using it to figure out how to get that witness to say what he wanted them to say on the stand.

35:28 Timothy: Everything about that's been proven.

35:29 Timothy: So I they're all aware of this.

35:32 Timothy: In fact, as we look at the King County prosecutors' jury selection process, they're playing to this.

35:37 Timothy: They're fine.

35:38 Timothy: You notice in the study he said 65% of the people went to 450 volts, right?

35:43 Timothy: So they killed somebody.

35:44 Timothy: Correct.

35:45 Timothy: Yeah.

35:46 Timothy: The um but now switch that up to jury duty, meaning you're you're going to get rid of the other 40% or 45% that actually would not flip the button.

35:56 Timothy: Correct.

35:56 Timothy: So the goal of the judge and the the goal of the prosecutor and the system itself is to make sure those that wouldn't do it, in fact, a hundred percent went to three three hundred volts.

36:06 Timothy: So you get rid of those people, and you wind up with a jury pool of ninety-five percent of the people that will follow the authorities and go all the way up the line.

36:16 Timothy: You can't even get in.

36:18 Timothy: Correct.

36:18 Timothy: That's why this is important.

36:20 Timothy: They have refined the corruption so that it's deep-seated, so you get a bunch of emotional jurors sitting there feeding off the whatever the prosecution and the judges in line, believe me, with the prosecutor.

36:34 Timothy: There's no separation going on.

36:37 Timothy: And they may be a little slier about it, but that they're not for your defense.

36:41 Timothy: Even in this, there's this uh Auburn, is it Auburn police, Jeff Nelson, Jacob?

36:45 Jacob: Yeah, I think it's I think it's Auburn.

Inflammatory Evidence And Media Games

36:47 Timothy: There's just to give you an example how anti-defense and anti-truth judges are.

36:55 Timothy: He had a lot of tattoos on his body, and a lot of policemen do.

37:00 Timothy: The prosecution, of course, wanted to introduce a couple, seven, eight, ten, I don't know, maybe all of the all of the tattoos to demonstrate what he was thinking when he overreached supposedly his authority and shot somebody, right?

37:15 Timothy: So they go, Oh, look, he's got a tattoo, it's got this saying on there, so he's a killer when he gets up in the morning, and he's a killer on the beat, and he's gonna pull the gun and he's gonna kill because the tattoo, it just shows what is in mind.

37:28 Timothy: That's what they want to play.

37:29 Timothy: Yes.

37:30 Timothy: And only a a literal, dumbed down, authoritative, manipulated jury pool will go, oh well, yeah, you can read minds by looking at tattoos.

37:41 Timothy: Never mind the fact that tattoos are legal and shouldn't even be brought into a courtroom, but but it's a far stretch to go from there to a mindset without any other proof of evidence.

37:51 Timothy: I don't want to go too far into that.

37:53 Timothy: Here's what happened.

37:55 Timothy: The defense, of course, objected to the fact that the judge was going to release these tattoos out to the public.

38:04 Timothy: Well, I was also objecting to the fact that the Well prosecutors wanted to release it to the jury.

38:11 Jacob: That's right.

38:11 Jacob: That's what they were after.

38:13 Jacob: They wanted to bring it in as evidence, and the defense objects.

38:17 Timothy: That is that's correct.

38:18 Timothy: Once the j and the judge was agreeing so then, okay, the reason why I get because it gets kind of muddled up, meaning the judge isn't is going back and forth.

38:28 Timothy: I don't know whether I want to allow it in the courtroom for the jury.

38:32 Timothy: So the next best thing for the prosecution is to get it released out into the public.

38:38 Timothy: Give it to the news medias.

38:40 Timothy: Are you following me?

38:40 Timothy: Did I make myself clear on that?

38:42 Jacob: Yeah, well, I think yeah, she she was going back and forth, and then she kind of it's almost like she went down the middle because I she would I don't think the jurors were allowed to see it, but she said it could be released to the public.

38:55 Timothy: Yeah, you're getting to my point.

38:56 Timothy: She didn't go down the middle, she still sided with the prosecution.

39:00 Timothy: Correct, yeah.

39:01 Timothy: In other words, logic was no, I'm not gonna let the jury base this case on tattoos.

39:05 Timothy: This is about the facts of, you know, did he do it or did he not do it?

39:10 Timothy: Whether he had a tattoo or didn't have a tattoo, he could have changed his attitude when he was sixteen when he got the tattoo.

39:15 Timothy: It's a it's a whole monkey mire of emotions.

39:17 Timothy: So she was actually agreeing with the defense and saying, yeah, the the jury shouldn't see this, right?

39:25 Timothy: Correct.

39:25 Timothy: Then it shifted to, well, we want it to be released to the public.

39:28 Timothy: Well, naturally the prosecution wanted that.

39:32 Timothy: The devent the judge said that the defense dropped its opposition to it being released to the newspapers and the news media.

39:40 Timothy: Therefore, she was releasing it to the news media in spite of the fact that it is inflammatory type evidence that would not be brought into the courtroom.

39:53 Timothy: By default, she should be ensuring the rights of the accused.

39:59 Timothy: If it's legal, then it shouldn't be released to the news media.

40:03 Timothy: Correct.

40:04 Jacob: Yeah.

40:04 Jacob: If you're not going to show it to the jurors, then you shouldn't show it to anybody.

40:08 Jacob: It shouldn't be released.

40:09 Timothy: And she's even agreeing with the defense up front saying, yeah, you're right, I'm not going to bring this in the courtroom.

40:14 Timothy: I see your point.

40:16 Timothy: I think there was even some agreement that really I shouldn't release it to the public, right?

40:19 Timothy: I shouldn't put it out for news media.

40:21 Timothy: But the defense drops its objection, and so the result, the naked response, so to speak, of the judge is to go ahead and give the prosecution what it wants instead of saying no, the basic rights, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, you know, those kinds of things apply by default in this courtroom, therefore they're not even going to go out in public.

40:42 Timothy: Instead, she did a sleight of hand where she goes, Well, because the pro or because the defense dropped their objection, I'm going to go ahead and release it to the news media.

40:54 Timothy: Did I explain that clear enough?

40:57 Timothy: Uh yeah.

41:01 Timothy: So I want to emphasize that again.

41:02 Timothy: By default, every judge should be I shouldn't have to pay a lawyer to babysit the prosecution.

41:09 Timothy: It didn't matter.

41:11 Timothy: I can tell you why the defense keeps dropping their objections, because this is not the first time they've done that.

41:16 Timothy: Why why do you think the defense has dropped like there's been two or three issues come up and eventually the defense just drops its objection?

41:22 Timothy: Do you know why, Jacob?

41:24 Jacob: Um, I'm only guessing.

41:26 Jacob: I I think probably because they're so busy, you only have so much energy, and so for their the the the thing that's you know blatantly in their face at that moment was don't release it to the jury.

41:39 Jacob: So they fight, fight, fight, and the judge agrees to that portion of it.

41:43 Jacob: So then you're just you're just tired and worn out, and you don't have enough money to bill enough hours, so then this other stuff slips through.

41:50 Timothy: Well, you actually got to it.

41:51 Timothy: It all had to do with money.

41:53 Timothy: Sure.

41:53 Timothy: Everything about the defense, if anybody's ever been.

41:58 Timothy: Well, I'm not trying to blame the defense, but that's a little bit different story.

42:02 Timothy: The point I'm saying is that the defense, everything they do comes down to do we have the money to do it or not.

42:08 Timothy: Correct.

42:08 Jacob: Yeah, because well, because you're billing the client.

42:10 Jacob: You're billing the client.

42:11 Jacob: If you're uh if you're Trump and you're a millionaire, you can hire, you know, endless lawyers, really.

42:17 Jacob: He's got the money.

42:18 Jacob: But if you're just a regular bearing him.

42:20 Timothy: So just apply that to the average joke they know.

42:22 Jacob: That's what I mean.

42:23 Jacob: Like Trump barely has a shot, right?

42:27 Jacob: Like he it's it's still a 50-50.

42:29 Jacob: And he's the he's like I don't know if he's a billionaire.

42:32 Jacob: He's he has mil I mean, they say he literally has like 200 million dollars cash just laying around in the bank accounts.

42:38 Jacob: Correct.

42:39 Jacob: And it's actually more than that.

42:40 Jacob: So, anyways, but yeah, to your point, which is yeah, you you yeah.

Bankrupting The Defense By Design

42:44 Timothy: All right, so when we went through what we went through and experienced the corruption within Seattle King County courts, everything on the defense side had to do with time and money.

42:54 Timothy: The longer that we went out, the more money we had to spend and the faster we became broke, which was exactly what the prosecution and the judge wanted.

43:04 Timothy: They they just wanted to bust you financially.

43:06 Timothy: There would have been a ton of things that could have been objected to that we possibly could have won on if we had the cash.

43:13 Timothy: In fact, it probably wouldn't go to trial.

43:15 Timothy: We'd have had enough private investigators that actually would have done what Detective McCall was supposed to do and go to the house and examine and see that the crime was impossible.

43:24 Timothy: But money was in short supply, and King County prosecutors were after to destroy Wine Press Publishing, Sound Doctrine Church, and run us out of town.

43:32 Timothy: And that's exactly what happened.

43:34 Timothy: If anybody thinks I'm like just blowing smoke, there's testimony to this fact.

43:39 Timothy: You have Detective McCall at the very beginning of his grooming situation and his hate crime, emailing King County prosecutors, had already been talking to a bunch of people and already been talking to Grant McCall, saying, Yeah, the key to winning this case or bringing down these people is to go after the church.

43:55 Timothy: That's what all of this was about.

43:57 Timothy: So you had this emotional feel good and Situation going on in a jury pool that was introduced to all these feelings about religion with no zero evidence presented by the prosecution that the crime had even happened or that it could have happened.

44:15 Timothy: I don't want to go too far off in it.

44:17 Timothy: So you get this authoritative going on.

44:19 Timothy: So the reason the defense and the prosecute, look, if you're on a jury pool and you're sitting there and you're smart enough to get in there to throw justice into the system, just know that on a flat out minimum level, the prosecutors and the judge are fully corrupt, and their only goal is to bankrupt you either financially or emotionally so that you do not have the strength and the energy to put up a defense.

44:44 Timothy: Forget this notion about a vigorous defense.

44:47 Timothy: It doesn't happen.

44:48 Timothy: They are wearing you down so that you cannot defend yourself.

44:52 Timothy: So by the time you get before an emotional, dumbed-down jury pool, you do look like a babbling idiot, doesn't know what's going on.

44:59 Timothy: You're just kind of flat out.

45:00 Timothy: In fact, we pushed it along and we drove this trial as fast as we could, but everybody was massively worn out when we got there, except, of course, the prosecution.

45:09 Timothy: They have unlimited funds, they've got secretaries, they've got nonprofit groups, they've got everybody and their brother on a social scale going on.

45:16 Timothy: Plus, of course, it was a white male Christian, it was a minority judge, it was a minority girl that could do the false accusations on Grant McCall and his co-conspirator knew exactly who to groom.

45:29 Timothy: Add that into the Milgram experiment where the authorities come in and go, Oh, you're here for jury to the you know, I gotta bring up one other point before we press on anything before we go any further?

45:40 Jacob: No.

45:41 Timothy: There's a central theme that has been exposed.

45:44 Timothy: You know, all sinners have a pattern.

45:47 Timothy: Sin makes us stupid, and so we just kind of operate like a dog or a cat or whatever we are.

45:53 Timothy: Only spiritual people that are being crucified have a dynamic personality kind of all over the place because they're being made and formed into the image of Jesus Christ.

46:03 Timothy: You never quite know what they're gonna be or can be or should do or whatever else.

46:08 Timothy: I'm not talking crazy stuff, I'm just meaning they are outside the box of what most people are trapped in because again, sin makes you absolutely stupid, and just a single childlike pattern.

46:21 Timothy: Okay, so there's a pattern that happens in these juries.

46:25 Timothy: You'll often hear them come out and go, let me pause here for effect so that people can let this sink in, and they'll say something to the effect of well, I I knew this was very important.

46:35 Timothy: A lot of lives would be affected by this.

46:39 Timothy: They're all puffed up.

46:40 Timothy: They're like the prosecution, they're like the judge, they're part of the system, they're the clipboard people, they've got the the white robes on, they're pushing the buttons, they're supporting people, and what they do is of significance.

46:54 Timothy: A lot of lives are affected, they're gonna change society.

46:58 Timothy: It's all this emotional cause, not you know, no longer makes sense, Jacob?

47:04 Jacob: Uh yeah, I get what you're saying.

47:07 Timothy: They ought to hang the posters.

47:09 Timothy: I, you know, we I have the four jury duty, four types of juror or posters.

47:14 Timothy: They they should hang that in the lobby uh as people come in to do jury duty.

47:18 Timothy: Or how about, you know, the old black and white movie, Twelve Angry Men?

47:22 Timothy: Now it's just twelve support groups for social causes.

47:26 Timothy: There's they don't allow anyone remotely with independent thinking to get in on the jury pool.

47:34 Timothy: We're pushing the time of over, but let's begin to play Jan's testimony, and then I want to dive in a little bit deeper on some of her basic points.

47:42 Timothy: I probably need to explain who Jan is, because actually, for those that know God, this is a praiseworthy situation.

47:49 Timothy: Jan was a part of the hate crime.

47:51 Timothy: She was the accountant at Wine Press Publishing.

47:54 Timothy: She went through the cr full-on corruption of the Uncall police and King County prosecutors.

48:01 Timothy: And by the way, they refused to repent, even though we've proven everything they accused us of of being wrong.

48:08 Timothy: Jan was highly involved, experienced the pain and something.

48:12 Timothy: She lost all her worldly goods, uh, go on and so forth.

48:16 Timothy: She just happened years later to be called a jury duty and wound up being on the case where the prosecutor called it a dog and pony show.

48:27 Timothy: I'm not, you know, if you're in Jesus Christ, you know what's going on.

48:31 Timothy: You understand what I'm saying.

48:32 Timothy: This this is out of the norm.

48:33 Timothy: I don't know what the odds would be if you calculated it, but there it is.

48:37 Timothy: So that's who Jan is.

48:39 Jacob: We're here to talk about your experience with jury duty, because I myself have never even I've never been on a jury, I've never been inside the courtrooms uh where this where where all this stuff goes down.

48:55 Jacob: So today we're recording this on April the 7th, 2024.

49:01 Jacob: And Jan, first take me back to just a few of the specific details.

49:08 Jacob: What day did your experience happen on?

49:12 SPEAKER_22: Well, mine was back in 2016.

49:14 SPEAKER_22: Okay, so I was there October 17th, 18th, and 20th, three days.

49:21 Timothy: Oh, okay.

49:23 Timothy: Jacob, let me stop you there just a minute.

49:25 Timothy: I'm gonna interrupt and don't feel like you gotta pick up the same spot.

49:28 Timothy: Do you have the play uh prosecutor seawall video handy there?

49:32 Timothy: Because this is let's remind people what happened is a prosecutor when she was at jury duty flat out stated the obvious that this is a dog and pony show.

49:43 Timothy: So we have confirmation from the prosecutor's office, King County prosecutors, judges, that you being selected for jury duty, you are part of a dog and pony show.

49:54 Timothy: So understand clearly, they're only looking down with you with contempt.

49:57 Timothy: Like we can manipulate you, we can bring you in, and they can.

50:01 Timothy: They can.

50:01 Timothy: I'm not arguing the point.

50:02 Timothy: So you're part of the dog and pony show if you make it, unless you're so shrewd and smart to get in and do justice.

50:11 Timothy: I and you know, based on the questions that we're gonna look at and what she went through, that would almost be impossible.

50:16 Timothy: You'd really have to compromise who you are.

50:19 Timothy: Did you find that clip?

50:22 SPEAKER_04: Jury selection.

50:23 SPEAKER_04: October 2006, Washington State.

50:28 SPEAKER_04: Seattle, King County Prosecutors, Courtroom 4G, Prosecutor Paul Stewart.

50:34 SPEAKER_04: Have you been selected for jury duty in the past?

50:37 SPEAKER_04: Then you have been through this dog and pony show before.

50:40 SPEAKER_04: The Consider Podcast.

50:42 SPEAKER_04: Examining today's madness, folly, and wisdom.info.

50:50 Timothy: Okay, this is the overshadow of what we're talking about.

50:53 Timothy: So let's continue on listening to her and then I'll just jump in and interrupt.

51:04 SPEAKER_22: Well, mine was back in 2016.

51:06 SPEAKER_22: Okay, so I was there October 17th, 18th, and 20th, three days.

51:13 Jacob: Oh, okay.

51:16 Jacob: And so tell me, just go ahead and start the story.

51:19 Jacob: What okay, well, first let's go ahead and back up real quick.

51:21 Jacob: Um, so what happened?

51:22 Jacob: You get like a summons in the mail, right?

51:24 Jacob: Isn't that how jury duty all starts?

51:27 SPEAKER_22: Yes, I got a summons in the mail saying that I would be summonsed and uh to call, you know, to find out when and where, which I did, and they told me to show up on October 17th for my first, you know, for my first interview.

Jan Describes The Jury Room

51:43 SPEAKER_22: And so on the 17th I went to the court to the courthouse, superior courthouse in Kent.

51:51 SPEAKER_22: Um and I was assigned well, actually, okay, when I when I arrived, I went to the jury room.

51:59 SPEAKER_22: Oh my goodness, the jury room was crowded.

52:02 SPEAKER_22: There were so many people in there.

52:04 SPEAKER_22: People were talking on their phones, computers.

52:07 SPEAKER_22: I don't know how these puzzles set out all over the place for people to do on tables.

52:13 SPEAKER_22: Uh there were vending machines, people were getting snacks.

52:16 unknown: Uh-huh.

52:17 SPEAKER_22: There it was a very unsettling atmosphere.

52:20 Jacob: I mean, and this is uh I'm gonna slow you down just a smidge, only because I this is in King County, is my understanding, right?

52:27 Jacob: I don't know if you specify that.

52:28 Jacob: Yes, yes, I think.

52:29 Timothy: Jacob just paused it out a little bit.

52:30 Timothy: All right, let's picture the scene here.

52:32 Timothy: There's there's no structure about what's being happening, there's no education.

52:37 Timothy: There's nothing about the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, full disclosure uh again, drug tests for prosecutors and drug tests for judges, what your responsibility is.

52:49 Timothy: They would do well to even just play the movie Twelve Angry Men instead of a bunch of puzzles around there to let people know how serious a thing they're marching into.

52:58 Timothy: But you understand the state doesn't want you taking this serious.

53:01 Timothy: Correct.

53:02 Timothy: The state wants you taking them serious, which is different than actually taking the case serious.

53:10 Timothy: I think you actually go on to say, I haven't actually listened to this thing word for word like we're doing now, and they were just being herded around like cattle.

53:16 Timothy: There's no direction, there's no order.

53:18 Timothy: At this point, it's just kind of a schizophrenic experience.

53:22 SPEAKER_10: Yeah.

53:22 Timothy: Okay, go ahead.

53:24 SPEAKER_22: In County and Kent Kent, Washington.

53:27 Jacob: Okay, yeah.

53:28 Jacob: That's where that's the courthouse you went to.

53:30 SPEAKER_22: Yes.

53:31 Jacob: Okay, and and the room so they stick you in a room.

53:34 Jacob: So when you like you show up, you enter the courthouse doors and they and you report to a specific room.

53:41 SPEAKER_22: Yes, and they say, Yeah, go to the jury the jury the jury room.

53:45 Jacob: Oh, it's it's a room, the jury room, and it's chaotic.

53:48 SPEAKER_22: Yes, it's very it's very chaotic, and it's mainly chaotic.

53:53 SPEAKER_22: One of the main reasons is because nobody knows what they're supposed to do.

53:57 Jacob: Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, nothing's clear.

54:00 Timothy: Yeah, Jacob Homer again.

54:02 Timothy: And I tend to give um sinners and other people that I'm repentant sinners, by the way, more credit, like what they're thinking and going on.

54:09 Timothy: So I may be imposing something like, and this is the danger of talking about it, because uh prosecutor or somebody's going, oh, that's a good idea.

54:16 Timothy: Why don't we do that?

54:18 Timothy: So there's a real danger in exposing it because they don't repent.

54:21 Timothy: It's not like they go, oh, well, this is wrong, we shouldn't do it.

54:24 Timothy: So when I say they're just being herded in and they're doing all this, and you're creating this chaotic type environment, I that could be intentional in the sense of you have this confusion, then you bring in the judge and the prosecutor, and you start entering into order bringing things into order.

54:39 Timothy: You follow, so you're bringing in compliance.

54:41 Jacob: Sure, they may be doing the chaotic, they may be creating the environment on purpose.

54:44 Timothy: Correct.

54:45 Timothy: Yeah.

54:45 Timothy: Now that I said that, of course, like I said, it's a danger they might actually do it.

54:49 Timothy: Um or this stuff was instituted so long because you've got to be knowing that the colleges and the people involved have studied this thing long before it ever got to this point, and they have figured out how to manipulate this social justice or whatever's going on that the state wants.

55:05 Timothy: This is a highly manipulative environment.

55:08 Timothy: So you have chaos, you got kids, you got puzzles, you stuff going on, there's no order, there's no really thinking you're confused before you ever go in to sit down and be quizzed by prosecutor and judges.

55:18 Timothy: Not a serious, helpful environment at all.

55:21 Timothy: In fact, one of the main goals here is to get rid of anybody who actually what am I trying to say here?

55:30 Timothy: Anybody who like, if you really take this serious and you're seriously minded and you really examine the state, my first reaction to walking in this environment would be this is a dog and pony show.

55:40 Timothy: I'm not gonna be part of it.

55:41 Timothy: It's too many hoops, too much going on, I'm being manipulated, and you leave.

55:45 Timothy: So by nature, a lot of the smartest, brightest people know not to even bother to show up.

55:50 Timothy: And this is just one more confirmation.

55:52 Timothy: Who who in their right mind walks into this kind of stupidity and hangs around this kind of crowd and think, okay, I'm gonna sit down with 12 other people and decide the fate of somebody?

56:01 Jacob: Yeah, the the whole environment.

56:03 Jacob: I mean, you you there's already sort of this like disgust or distaste, or like, eh, I really just don't like this.

56:11 Jacob: Anybody who's anybody who's a rational thinking person probably doesn't like the chaos, and and then yeah, and then so it's it's gonna quickly weed you out.

56:19 Jacob: And the only people you're left with are emotional people who like the chaos.

56:23 Jacob: Yeah, mindless emotional people who either like the chaos or they're certainly used to it, and then they can, you know, so they can you can be manipulated through it.

56:30 Timothy: And I do apologize to Jan.

56:32 Timothy: I'm I I would tease her if she were here that yeah, you're in that class.

56:35 Timothy: But uh, anybody else that's rational, logical, calm thinking, doesn't uh we'll see here in a moment, watch Oprah and Dr.

56:43 Timothy: Phil and just well grounded in life and busy and out working on the farm and raising the kids and doing the family is gonna go, this is nice, I'm leaving.

56:50 Timothy: So all your rational people are already not even showing up.

56:54 Timothy: Keep going, let's play a little bit more.

56:57 SPEAKER_22: You just go in this room, you're waiting and waiting, and everyone's wondering, okay, uh, what's gonna happen, you know?

57:06 SPEAKER_22: Uh no one knows.

57:07 SPEAKER_22: Some people just they want to get out of there like A-S-A-P.

57:11 Jacob: You know, is that the vibe in the room?

57:14 Jacob: You can tell a lot of people don't want to be there.

57:17 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, well, it's kind of a mixed thing.

57:19 SPEAKER_22: There's those people that do not want to be there, and then there's other people that are like, well, no, this is something very important that we're doing.

57:27 SPEAKER_22: We are participating in the legal system, you know.

57:31 SPEAKER_22: I can really make a difference.

57:32 SPEAKER_22: And they want to be on the jury.

57:34 Timothy: Now, those, of course, the second part she's talking about are the dangerous folks because they want to make a difference, they're highly tuned to what the prosecution is going to present and how the judge is going to manipulate them, right?

57:47 Timothy: The other angle, too, is it sounds noble, like, oh, there's a good people that don't want to be there and all that, right?

57:52 Timothy: Well, they showed up.

57:53 Timothy: True.

57:53 Timothy: So they're already naive and they're all they're they're part of the one of the four jurors.

57:58 Timothy: They they at least show up.

57:59 Timothy: They're really, really smart people don't even show up.

58:02 Jacob: Well, like she'll talk about later, though, that this is the first time she had ever done jury duty because all the other times she had an excuse to get out, but this time she didn't have an excuse to get out.

58:12 Jacob: So some there are, I'm just saying, some people whatever attitude, you know, some people you have to show up, or it's like a, I don't know, you get in trouble somehow.

58:20 Jacob: Nope.

58:20 Jacob: What do you mean, nope?

58:21 Jacob: Nope.

58:22 Timothy: They ne they never prosecute you if you don't show up.

58:25 Jacob: Oh, okay, yeah.

58:26 Jacob: Never, ever.

58:26 Timothy: It's kind of like liars for King County.

58:28 Timothy: Sure.

58:28 Timothy: If you don't want to be there, they're not going to prosecute you.

58:31 Timothy: And if you're willing to lie for the prosecution, you receive every single evil blessing you can possibly get.

58:36 Timothy: No, that's the ironic part.

58:38 Timothy: You're still naive.

58:39 Timothy: I hear what you're saying, but no.

58:40 Timothy: Because that's what they say.

58:42 Timothy: We don't prosecute people who don't show up for jury duty.

58:45 Jacob: But they say that it's considered, what, a misdemeanor or something.

58:48 Timothy: Well, sure, it's considered a misdemeanor.

58:50 Jacob: You know, yeah, yeah.

58:50 Timothy: Technically, Enam Kalal detective at least committed a misdemeanor, but they don't there is the law, and then there is the the real application of the law.

58:58 Timothy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

58:59 Timothy: You know, it's like, yeah, this is against the law, but if you're of a minority or you're of this particular group, you're going to be treated much differently.

59:05 Timothy: Well, sure.

59:06 Timothy: So I'm just letting you know I could be wrong, and I'm sure a lawyer say, and I'm not advocating you don't show up, because that's clearly against the law to advocate one way or another.

59:15 Timothy: They don't they don't want to inform jurors.

59:17 Timothy: No, you will not.

59:18 Timothy: If you ignore that thing, fully ignore it, like don't even check the box, or I don't want to, they're not gonna come get you.

59:24 Timothy: Sure.

59:25 Timothy: You won't be pulled over for a speeding ticket and go, oh, sir, there's a warrant out for your arrest if you didn't show up for jury duty.

59:31 Timothy: Correct, yeah.

59:31 Timothy: Here's kind of my dream, right?

59:33 Timothy: I don't show up for jury duty and they arrest me.

59:35 Timothy: What's the first thing I'm gonna ask for?

59:38 Timothy: Uh public a jury, a jury trial, exactly.

59:41 Jacob: Well, no, wait, that's not what you want, because then you're gonna get the worthless people.

59:44 Timothy: I am being facetious.

59:45 Timothy: It's a joke I've told myself over the years, kind of routine.

59:48 Timothy: But no, no, no.

59:48 Timothy: I know I'm beating this to death, but no, it's a joke.

59:52 Timothy: The whole thing is a dog and pony show.

59:54 Timothy: Look at what they pay you.

59:55 Timothy: Look at what they do.

59:56 Timothy: Oh, yeah.

59:57 Timothy: The whole thing is like we want the stupidest people that are willing to show up, stay here, go through all these hoops.

1:00:03 Timothy: She had to come back three days in a row.

1:00:05 Timothy: Yeah.

1:00:06 Timothy: They're they're weeding out anybody that doesn't want to put any effort for the stupidity.

1:00:09 Jacob: That's the thing.

1:00:10 Jacob: Even even if you do show up, the people that she's even describing who don't want to be there, all you got to do is say the right things, and you're for sure gonna get booted.

1:00:17 Jacob: Okay.

1:00:17 Jacob: If you don't want to be, you know, if you don't want to be there, and even if you did show up that day, you can say things to be assured that you won't end up on an actual jury.

1:00:27 Jacob: You won't have to be on a trial.

1:00:29 Timothy: And a lot of those people are easily manipulated by flattery.

1:00:32 Timothy: They don't want to be there, right?

1:00:33 Timothy: Sure.

1:00:34 Timothy: But then the the prosecution just, oh, it's very important that you're here.

1:00:36 Timothy: Yeah, it protects society.

1:00:38 Timothy: But the fact that you showed up, that you're sitting there, you might be whining and complaining, you're highly manipulated.

1:00:44 Timothy: You're already there.

1:00:45 Timothy: Sure.

1:00:45 Timothy: You already feel a sense of authority, like I better show up because I've been summons to jury duty.

1:00:50 Timothy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:00:51 Timothy: And there's there's not a repulsion, like, I don't want to participate in that crush.

1:00:54 Timothy: Again, if God calls me to go, I'll go.

1:00:57 Timothy: Don't don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I wouldn't show up.

1:00:59 Timothy: I again, I'm too smart for jury duty.

1:01:01 Timothy: There is no way I'm gonna get in there.

1:01:04 Timothy: And I say no way, man.

1:01:05 Timothy: I you'd have to be awful shrewd and innocent.

1:01:07 Jacob: Well, you would almost, I think you mentioned earlier, I there's yeah, you you'd almost be flirting with straight up lying to actually end up on the jury, because by the time they start asking the questions, and I'm jumping ahead of the interview, because she even says that like some people, you know, you raise your little paddle, and other people, they would straight up call upon you.

1:01:27 Jacob: So if you sit there quietly and you're technically not lying, like they could the very likelihood is they're gonna ask you a direct question, and then you're gonna be honest, and then they're gonna boot you.

1:01:36 Timothy: And well, and King County goes further than that to weed you out, and I'm jumping ahead too.

1:01:41 Timothy: When they immediately when they say we're going to do an Ofra Winfrey and a Dr.

1:01:46 Timothy: Phil encounter session, sure, you can't fake it at that point.

1:01:49 Jacob: Yeah, well, that's the yeah, you can't so it's you can't just sit there and be like, oh, yeah.

1:01:53 Jacob: I mean, you would it's every it would be in your a gut reaction.

1:01:56 SPEAKER_24: You'd be like, You can sit there squirming and they'd be like, sure, why are you squirming?

1:02:01 SPEAKER_24: You might as well.

1:02:02 Timothy: I've been waiting to get the Ofra Wimpy one and we'll get or Ofra Wimfery.

1:02:06 Timothy: I can't even think that's how much I watched it.

1:02:08 Timothy: Oh yeah, when I when I did a couple of jury duos, they didn't go through all that encounter group.

1:02:12 Timothy: Of course, they were there were smaller type cases, right?

1:02:15 Timothy: But I can just see me in this group with Jan and that that judge of the Yeah, we're going to do an encounter group here and we're gonna share personal details with all these people here and with a prosecutor and a judge, and I'm gonna be able to keep my cool, like, I don't think I want an encounter group experience, and I don't want these people knowing anything, and I'm not Doctor, oh, because because yeah, yeah, I well, you bring up a thing I never thought of because even if you're like, I don't wanna just the attitude of like I don't want to share any information, like and and they would call, well, why, sir?

1:02:48 Jacob: Why are you so quiet?

1:02:49 Jacob: Well, because that this is crazy.

1:02:51 Jacob: It's none of your business.

1:02:52 Jacob: It's none of my business.

1:02:53 Jacob: This is uh I'm not gonna spill my guts like I'm on the Dr.

1:02:56 Jacob: Phil show.

1:02:56 Jacob: And then you would be weeded out, even not for saying anything, you know what I mean?

1:03:00 Jacob: You would just be like, this is crazy, and then then you'd be, oh, then well, then we don't want him because he's not manipulatable.

1:03:06 Timothy: What they're creating is groupthink and ensuring that that group will work together and come to a conclusion for the state.

1:03:14 Timothy: So I'm emphasizing what you said.

1:03:16 Timothy: Anybody that's independent thinking, anybody that says, look, this is none of your business, and I don't know who these people are.

1:03:22 Timothy: Why would I want to tell them?

1:03:24 Timothy: And I'm not, I'm not here for a group encounter situation to do what you want me to do.

1:03:29 Timothy: So let me let me qualify all of that ranting and raving, which is absolutely true, and I could probably preach this for another hour.

1:03:34 Timothy: And where are the Christians out here preaching this and warning people when they do jury duty?

1:03:38 Timothy: You know what?

1:03:39 Timothy: How about full declosure?

1:03:40 Timothy: Okay, judge, not a problem.

1:03:42 Timothy: I want to know, since this is a woman, when do you have your period?

1:03:45 Timothy: Are you going through menopause?

1:03:46 Timothy: Are you on any other medications?

1:03:48 Timothy: Are you on any antipressants?

1:03:50 Timothy: Have you had any abortions?

1:03:51 Timothy: I want your drug tests.

1:03:53 Timothy: Same thing with the prosecutor.

1:03:54 Timothy: Who did you vote for?

1:03:55 Timothy: Who are your friends?

1:03:56 Timothy: Who do you hang with?

1:03:57 Timothy: Are you associating with anybody that's outside the actual legal profession?

1:04:02 Timothy: Do you enjoy real life with real people suffering under the laws of Washington State?

1:04:08 Timothy: Look, I want full disclosure: weight gain, weight loss, what you've been doing, where you go, what you do for hobbies.

1:04:13 Timothy: Let's at least make it fair.

1:04:15 Timothy: Then I'll be glad to share my Bible studies, my life, who I associate with, who I don't.

1:04:20 Timothy: Not only that, how many people are volunteering who their friends are?

1:04:23 Timothy: Like, I want somebody to communicate who my friends are or what news I listen to.

1:04:29 Timothy: You have to be massively just have a welcome sign that says manipulate me for the state the minute that they say let's do a Dr.

1:04:40 Timothy: Phil and Ofra encounter.

1:04:44 Timothy: Right?

1:04:45 Timothy: Yeah.

1:04:47 Timothy: We'll still come back to this because that that is a crucial turning point in this whole thing.

1:04:51 Timothy: Keep going.

1:04:52 Timothy: What did you think?

1:04:53 Timothy: What were you there for?

1:04:56 SPEAKER_22: What was I there for?

1:04:57 SPEAKER_22: I did not I did not want to be on the on the jury.

1:05:01 SPEAKER_24: Okay, yeah.

1:05:01 SPEAKER_22: Uh but I but I I really had I had no reason to get out of it.

1:05:06 SPEAKER_24: Sure.

1:05:07 SPEAKER_22: You know, I mean, in the past I'd had reasons, you know, I had children or I was working, but I really didn't have any reasons.

1:05:15 Timothy: So Let me interrupt Jacob, this proves that I don't run a cult.

1:05:20 Timothy: Why is that?

1:05:21 Timothy: Because I I if she'd have said that to me, I'd go, What do you mean?

1:05:24 Timothy: You got every reason not to go.

1:05:25 Timothy: It's full of that's what this whole podcast is about that don't participate in this corruption, correct?

1:05:32 Timothy: Yeah.

1:05:32 Timothy: And she's saying, Well, I didn't have any reasons.

1:05:34 Timothy: Jan is far more accommodating for this kind of thing.

1:05:37 Timothy: It's why God chose her to go to jury duty.

1:05:39 Timothy: You follow what I'm saying.

1:05:41 Timothy: If I ran a cult, we'd all be thinking the same, but we don't think exactly the same except for the things that are in Jesus Christ.

1:05:47 Timothy: Sure.

1:05:48 Timothy: Yeah, a little subpoint.

1:05:49 Timothy: Go ahead.

1:05:53 SPEAKER_22: You know, 'cause we are just j uh just had actually a bad experience in that courthouse.

1:06:00 Jacob: Yes.

1:06:00 Jacob: And so they didn't just to be clear too, they didn't give you there was nothing ahead of time because you said they didn't give you any instructions.

1:06:06 Jacob: So they didn't tell you anything.

1:06:07 Jacob: They didn't there was there was no packet on how to be a good juror.

1:06:11 Jacob: There was there was no outline of what to expect that day walking in.

1:06:17 SPEAKER_22: No?

1:06:17 SPEAKER_22: Just go to this room.

1:06:19 Jacob: Show up.

1:06:20 Jacob: So you're already you're already just being herded around like a cow.

1:06:23 Jacob: You don't even know where to go.

1:06:25 Jacob: I think cows know where they're going.

1:06:27 Jacob: Okay, all right.

1:06:27 Jacob: So go ahead.

1:06:28 Jacob: So what happens next?

1:06:29 Jacob: You're in this room.

Donation Checkboxes As A Loyalty Test

1:06:30 SPEAKER_22: Okay.

1:06:30 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

1:06:31 SPEAKER_22: Well then they did start handing out some paperwork.

1:06:34 Jacob: Oh, okay.

1:06:35 SPEAKER_22: And so they asked you to fill out uh some personal information, you know, your name, address, that kind of thing.

1:06:43 SPEAKER_22: Then they sent out this paperwork.

1:06:45 SPEAKER_22: They wanted you to donate your jury compensation to the new court child care program.

1:06:53 Timothy: Jacob, hold me back.

1:06:55 Timothy: Hold me back.

1:06:56 Timothy: Did we catch that?

1:06:58 Timothy: They want a donation.

1:07:00 Timothy: They want their money back.

1:07:01 Timothy: They want the and they wanted to go for the child welfare fund.

1:07:05 Timothy: It's always for the children.

1:07:06 Timothy: And let me rant and rape your money.

1:07:08 Timothy: But let's let's get the picture here.

1:07:09 Timothy: You show up for jury duty, you're going through this cowherding process, and you're giving a stipend of a little bit of money here and there.

1:07:16 Jacob: I don't know if it's 10 or 15 bucks a month, is what you're going to get to be a jury.

1:07:20 Jacob: Well, yeah, or whatever.

1:07:21 Timothy: And they pay you actually gas.

1:07:23 Timothy: I've actually got the little screen clip.

1:07:24 Timothy: You can go on their website, and you and there's two boxes.

1:07:27 Timothy: One, you can donate the money to the Core Children Fund.

1:07:32 Timothy: Child care.

1:07:32 Timothy: Childcare center.

1:07:34 Timothy: And then you can donate to the child care center the gas money they pay you.

1:07:38 Timothy: So it's two different boxes, two different donations.

1:07:41 Timothy: And on the screenshot, the word yes, like donate, is in capital letters.

1:07:46 Timothy: That they clearly that we know that the state of Washington just lusts for every dollar, and that there's not a tax they don't just lust for and go after.

1:07:56 Timothy: But again, this is highly, highly manipulative.

1:08:01 Timothy: I have to think this was done intentionally.

1:08:03 Timothy: I know the greed angle is there, but by checking those boxes, like let's say you're a person that goes, oh yeah, I want to donate.

1:08:11 Timothy: What have you just demonstrated to the state?

1:08:13 Timothy: All the prosecutor has to do is look up your name, check and that judge, and look and go, oh, well, they donated or they didn't donate.

1:08:20 Timothy: What did you forget all the other questionnaire and the dialogue and a high sounding legal talk?

1:08:26 Timothy: What did a person just demonstrate by donating or not donating that money?

1:08:32 Timothy: Well, if you if you donate, then you're easily swayed.

1:08:36 Timothy: That's right.

1:08:36 Timothy: You're for the state.

1:08:38 Timothy: It's always for the children.

1:08:39 Timothy: It's for the state.

1:08:40 Timothy: It's for, oh, it's for children.

1:08:42 Timothy: They don't have check a box to donate to the public defender's office because they're underfunded, right?

1:08:47 Timothy: Correct.

1:08:48 Timothy: Because that would send a message that what?

1:08:50 Timothy: The public defender's office is not supported or is supported by the state.

1:08:55 Timothy: I'd check the box if it went there because public defenders are always underfunded, and that's where prosecutors immediately want you to go, so they bankrupt you.

1:09:02 Timothy: They're not listing that there or giving you any choice.

1:09:05 Timothy: It's always for the children.

1:09:07 Timothy: And if you check that box, you are loudly declaring, I'm for the state, and I'm for the state protecting children.

1:09:16 Timothy: That's what you're declaring.

1:09:18 Timothy: And if you don't check the box, what are you declaring?

1:09:21 Timothy: Like, no, I'm not going to do that.

1:09:23 Timothy: I'm not for the state.

1:09:24 Timothy: That that would be enough right there as a judge or an evil prosecutor to go, well, I do or do not want them.

1:09:30 Timothy: It spells everything right out front.

1:09:34 Timothy: Yeah.

1:09:35 Timothy: Question, Jacob.

1:09:36 Timothy: Yeah.

1:09:37 Timothy: It's always for the children, isn't it?

1:09:38 Timothy: Yes, it is.

1:09:39 Timothy: Always for the children.

1:09:40 Timothy: Always for the children.

1:09:41 Timothy: Let me ask you a question.

1:09:42 Timothy: Are the children in Washington State safer?

1:09:46 Timothy: Or worse off since they've done all this child prevention stuff and taking money in these causes?

1:09:53 Timothy: Are our children more safe to be raised in a family authority home?

1:09:57 Timothy: Or worse off.

1:09:58 Timothy: To be law-abiding, to be at peace, to be content going through hormonal changes?

1:10:03 Timothy: Or are they luring our children away to be castrated, to be mutilated, to believe in all kinds of sexual perversion type things or ideology or that white people are bad?

1:10:16 Timothy: What is really going on here?

1:10:17 Timothy: Are our children actually more safe?

1:10:19 Timothy: So anybody checking that box is approving of all the junk and the perversion that's going on that the state of Washington is imposing upon our children.

1:10:31 Timothy: They're coming in and kidnapping our children if there's any slight hint or they just make up something.

1:10:36 Timothy: There's nothing about this that you should ever check the box and say, yeah, I want the state to have more money for children.

1:10:44 Timothy: Correct.

1:10:44 Timothy: They undermine fathers.

1:10:47 Timothy: Divorce rates are up.

1:10:48 Timothy: Who who wins in in uh most of the time in family court?

1:10:52 Timothy: It's the woman, or it's the lying, or it's that that's going on.

1:10:55 Timothy: So you're checking the box because these poor women who are in trouble with the state or their husband or whatever receive free child care.

1:11:04 Timothy: I'm assuming that's what it's going for.

1:11:06 Jacob: Yeah, it's probably because I don't know, but yeah, the child care would be you're a working mom and then someone's got to watch your kids.

1:11:15 Jacob: So yeah.

1:11:15 Jacob: Oh yeah, but I mean, anytime you're giving a single, single dollar to the state to be like, oh, you oh I uh you should look after my kids.

1:11:24 Jacob: I'm like, no.

1:11:26 Jacob: No, I don't care.

1:11:27 Jacob: They are enemies of our children.

1:11:29 Jacob: Yeah, I'm not why why would I ever, ever, uh I can't say ever enough ever.

1:11:35 Jacob: Why would I ever want the state looking after my child at all in any capacity?

1:11:40 Timothy: You need proof.

1:11:40 Timothy: Just look at the condition of Seattle and other places and the drug addiction and goes on down the line.

1:11:44 Timothy: Really.

1:11:45 Jacob: Oh, yeah, yeah, they've done a they've done a great job.

1:11:47 Jacob: Oh, yeah.

1:11:47 Jacob: They have a proven track record.

1:11:49 Jacob: We can really change people for the better.

1:11:51 Jacob: You're right.

1:11:51 Timothy: I wish all these people would have a class action lawsuit and have a refund based number one in even taking it, but on the evidence that this did not benefit anybody whatsoever and on any level.

1:12:01 Timothy: That I when I first talked to Jan after she came back from this, we're kind of she's kind of filling me in, right?

1:12:07 Timothy: And not this long discussion.

1:12:09 Timothy: She got to the point of this money thing, and my mind just flipped.

1:12:13 Timothy: I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what did you just say?

1:12:15 Timothy: Because she's not thinking anything about it.

1:12:17 Timothy: Sure.

1:12:17 Timothy: And I'm not disparaging her.

1:12:19 Timothy: She's not thinking anything about it.

1:12:20 Timothy: I'm going, whoa, what did they just do?

1:12:23 Timothy: And then I got fixated on that.

1:12:25 Timothy: We just kept talking about it.

1:12:26 Timothy: And eventually, well, I had you do the interview and we go from there.

1:12:29 Timothy: But this is a game changer point.

1:12:32 Timothy: If you wanted, there's so many corruptions, but if you wanted to go, well, give us one thing that's a corruption, right there it is, right there in front of your face.

1:12:40 Timothy: Donate or don't donate.

1:12:42 Timothy: We better press on.

1:12:43 Timothy: Um just just think how e I have so many reforms in my mind that would save money, that would be cost effective, that would move things along, but it would introduce justice into the system, and they're not gonna go for it.

1:12:58 Timothy: Um all right, let's press on.

1:13:01 Jacob: How much do you how much do you get compensated?

1:13:03 Jacob: This is it's joke pay, right?

1:13:06 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, it's it is.

1:13:07 SPEAKER_22: It's like I think it was like ten, maybe fifteen dollars a day.

1:13:11 Jacob: Okay, yeah.

1:13:12 Jacob: Yeah, that's a joke pay.

1:13:13 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, that's all you get, you know, but uh they they want you to donate it.

1:13:19 Jacob: What is what is the new court child care program?

1:13:23 Jacob: As in like a what is this?

1:13:25 SPEAKER_22: I have no idea.

1:13:26 Timothy: See, and there's no explanation in there.

1:13:29 Timothy: And we we actually have an information request uh to find out how much money they've taken in over a period of time and what this is going to and who it's going for.

1:13:35 Timothy: Just so you know.

1:13:36 Timothy: So they're not even filling you in.

1:13:37 Timothy: That's why I said if they put this in there as a manipulation, somebody was pretty smart about it.

1:13:42 Timothy: Because the if I were an evil psychologist, this is what I would do.

1:13:47 SPEAKER_22: Uh in fact, in fact, right now we're Okay, sorry to interrupt again.

1:13:52 Timothy: Again, she doesn't know, right?

1:13:54 Timothy: And there's no explanation.

1:13:56 Timothy: They are keeping juries in the dark about everything.

1:13:58 Timothy: So you're proving again, you don't really care to know.

1:14:02 Timothy: It's not like I'd venture to say nobody's gone.

1:14:04 Timothy: I'm going, can you tell me who this child care thing is, who's going forward, who's in charge, how much money's been collected.

1:14:10 Timothy: Nobody's doing that.

1:14:11 Timothy: No.

1:14:12 Timothy: And if anybody did, don't you think word would spread throughout the whole courtroom, like, yeah, you don't want him.

1:14:16 Timothy: Sure.

1:14:17 Timothy: Sorry to keep interrupting you.

1:14:19 Timothy: Whatever, keep going.

1:14:21 SPEAKER_22: Get some information on this child care program and to find out, okay, how much money has been donated over the years to this program because you figure most jurors they don't want their ten dollars a day.

1:14:37 SPEAKER_22: Um and so, you know, they're gonna go, okay, sure, fine, you know.

1:14:41 SPEAKER_22: I mean, personally, I took my ten dollars a day.

1:14:43 Jacob: Okay, yeah, yeah.

1:14:44 Jacob: Sure.

1:14:45 Jacob: But they're hoping uh that's of course, that's like the government.

1:14:48 Jacob: The taxes already paid for the courthouse and everything in it, and then you show up to supposedly, and then they still want the tiny bit of money that they're gonna hand in your pocket.

1:14:55 Jacob: That just sounds like the government, right?

1:14:57 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, exactly.

1:14:59 SPEAKER_22: Exactly.

1:14:59 SPEAKER_22: Right.

1:15:00 Jacob: Okay, and they call and they called it the child care program.

1:15:03 Jacob: So and and was this is it just like a checkbox?

1:15:06 Jacob: Like you just check, hey, my money will go to it, I'm good with that, or was it more in-depth, like you had to sign away or no, it was the easy peasy, we'll take your money.

1:15:15 SPEAKER_22: You just put a little check in the box, either you do or don't or do not, and you sign it.

1:15:20 Jacob: But they didn't explain in any ways what the money was for, other than it was for the children.

1:15:26 SPEAKER_11: Yeah, exactly.

1:15:27 Jacob: That's what everybody says, right?

1:15:29 Jacob: You're you're like if you don't give to the children, you're a bad person.

1:15:31 Jacob: Okay, so that's weird.

1:15:33 Jacob: All right.

1:15:34 Jacob: So then you can't pause it, keep going.

1:15:37 SPEAKER_22: Okay, uh oh well at this at this point oh the o other form that they gave you at this point, they were just asking your name and you know, address, your occupation, that kind of thing.

The Anonymous Mindset Questionnaire

1:15:49 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

1:15:49 SPEAKER_22: Then they had this uh it w they called it an anonymous questionnaire.

1:15:55 SPEAKER_22: And they said they were doing a study on jurors and their mindsets.

1:16:02 SPEAKER_22: And so they want wanted you to answer answer all these questions about your mindset, you know.

1:16:07 Timothy: Jacob, did you do you believe anything is anonymous?

1:16:12 Timothy: I mean, within the government.

1:16:13 Timothy: They're they're come along saying, I I'm not saying they're not tracking it, but whatever.

1:16:18 Jacob: Well, she was cause she's saying it was a separate piece of paper, so your personal information isn't on it, it's a separate one.

1:16:24 Timothy: Sure.

1:16:25 Timothy: Again, uh I it it's a minor point.

1:16:27 Timothy: What they're really doing is collecting the mindset.

1:16:30 Timothy: Oh, yeah.

1:16:30 Jacob: I mean, who's gonna support the state and who's not?

1:16:33 Jacob: Well, even uh I I'll take it at face value that it's supposedly anonymous, but it's still evil because they're still, you know, regardless.

1:16:40 Jacob: I mean, they you know, Jan fills hers out and they didn't know it was Jan, but they're you know, it all goes into a box and then they they determine how they can weasel their will into everything.

1:16:49 Jacob: Sure.

1:16:49 Timothy: Or if they need to tweak something in the program to keep certain people away that actually think and would bring justice into the jury pool and who the fools that they can attract.

1:16:57 Timothy: Yeah, it's a marketing ploy, and so you're trying to market certain people.

1:17:02 Timothy: Uh whatever.

1:17:05 Timothy: They're my occupation, whatever it's none of their business kind of routine.

1:17:08 Timothy: Go ahead.

1:17:09 Timothy: You answer them?

1:17:10 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, I answered them.

1:17:12 Jacob: So then so is it a separate piece of paper?

1:17:14 Jacob: How is this anonymous?

1:17:15 Jacob: If you're filled with it Okay, so it's a separate piece.

1:17:17 Jacob: Not that they can't match up handwriting if they wanted, but anyways, that that that's a different story.

1:17:22 Jacob: So and you did fill it out.

1:17:25 SPEAKER_22: Right.

1:17:25 SPEAKER_22: I did fill it out.

1:17:26 Jacob: What kind of what kind of questions are they wanting to know?

1:17:29 Jacob: Do you remember?

1:17:30 Jacob: Wow.

1:17:31 SPEAKER_22: I don't really remember, you know.

1:17:35 SPEAKER_22: Um but I I I know there were there were a lot of kind of psychological kind of things, like, you know, what do you think of the courts?

1:17:43 SPEAKER_22: And you know.

1:17:45 SPEAKER_22: Um I I I don't remember.

1:17:47 Timothy: Of course, what do you think of the like you know I I'd have to do you know, Jacob, was it like fill in the blank checkbox?

1:17:53 Timothy: I don't I don't know.

1:17:54 Timothy: One to ten.

1:17:55 Timothy: Like I don't know.

1:17:56 Timothy: Really, there's a whole book.

1:17:56 Timothy: I what do you think of the courts?

1:17:58 Timothy: Uh yeah, can I share that with everybody here?

1:18:01 Timothy: Kind of routine.

1:18:02 Jacob: Anyway, keep going.

1:18:03 Jacob: Do you remember how long it was?

1:18:04 Jacob: How was this like like one piece of paper, or you were flipping it?

1:18:08 SPEAKER_22: It was a couple pages, yeah.

1:18:10 SPEAKER_22: Right.

1:18:11 SPEAKER_22: I mean, I kind of got the idea, you know, they it didn't say this, but I got the idea that maybe some college was doing some, you know, some program on this, like gather all this data.

1:18:23 SPEAKER_22: We want to do an analysis on jurors and their mindsets.

1:18:26 Jacob: Well, I doubt it's the college.

1:18:28 Jacob: It's more like the government.

1:18:29 Jacob: The government wants to know everything.

1:18:30 Timothy: Let me tweak what you just said there, Jacob, because and I'll just throw it out for discussion.

1:18:34 Timothy: You're wrong.

1:18:35 Timothy: They they they're it's true the government wants to know, but they're hiring the college students, the paralegals, the the the all the do-gooders that work for the children's court or framing lies that the prosecution can bring in.

1:18:48 Timothy: They're getting all that information.

1:18:50 Timothy: And so they they have a vast wealth of knowledge and how to manipulate people, not just there, but also in the jury, especially in the jury pool.

1:18:57 Timothy: That's the whole goal here of all of this.

1:19:00 Timothy: And then of course, as you find the state of Washington dumbing down the public education system, it gets easier and easier to find fools, doesn't it?

1:19:06 Timothy: Correct.

1:19:07 Timothy: Yeah.

1:19:07 Timothy: All right, press on.

1:19:08 Timothy: Any comments on that?

1:19:09 Timothy: No.

1:19:10 Jacob: Okay.

1:19:10 Jacob: I doubt it was a college.

1:19:12 Jacob: Pretty sure it was them.

1:19:13 Jacob: So so what happens next?

1:19:14 Jacob: No, go ahead.

1:19:15 Jacob: Okay, what what uh okay?

1:19:17 SPEAKER_22: I can't help myself.

1:19:18 Jacob: I can't help myself to like, you know, to uh the the the whole the whole judicial system is so corrupt to think it was a supposed college people, anyways.

1:19:28 Jacob: Go ahead.

1:19:29 Jacob: What what okay?

1:19:31 SPEAKER_22: So then you just wait, wait, wait until your and until your name is called.

1:19:36 SPEAKER_22: So finally I was instructed to go to a courtroom.

1:19:41 Jacob: Okay, so wait, so you're in, I'm just I'm just because I've never been in one of these rooms.

1:19:45 Jacob: This is a big room.

1:19:46 Jacob: You would you call this a big room?

1:19:48 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, I would.

1:19:49 Jacob: And there's and how so how many people are in the room, you figure?

1:19:54 SPEAKER_22: I would say a couple hundred.

1:19:56 SPEAKER_22: What?

1:19:56 SPEAKER_22: No, really?

1:19:57 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

1:19:58 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

1:19:58 Jacob: Oh, I didn't know.

1:19:59 Jacob: I didn't know that.

1:20:00 Jacob: Okay, so this is a big room.

1:20:01 Jacob: There's a there's a couple hundred, and the whole time it's the chaotic setting, even while you're filling out your paperwork.

1:20:08 SPEAKER_22: Well, I mean, there's there's there's some or there's some order.

1:20:13 SPEAKER_22: You know, I mean, people are sitting there and you're passing these papers down this down this aisle where you're sitting, you know, it's like, okay, take one, pass it on, take one, pass it on, you know.

1:20:23 Jacob: Who comes who comes in the room?

1:20:24 Jacob: Did do they say, like, hey, my name is so-and-so, I'm a something something?

1:20:29 SPEAKER_22: Yes, they did have someone come in and exp and explain a few things.

1:20:34 SPEAKER_22: They they did have like this um uh I guess a teleprompter or something going on in the corner, you know, that was explaining some things.

1:20:43 SPEAKER_22: You know, just please wait.

1:20:45 SPEAKER_22: So I guess I guess now now that I think about there were that instructions you could read up there, you know, okay, please just wait till your name is called, you know, be patient.

1:20:56 Timothy: Okay, hang on just a second there, Jacob.

1:20:57 Timothy: Uh and do you want to expound on that?

1:20:59 Timothy: I I find it interesting that you you really focus in on the fact that this is chaotic.

1:21:04 Timothy: Is there what what is it that about that that kind of sticks under your crawl?

1:21:09 Jacob: Or are you just commenting on the fact?

1:21:11 Jacob: I'm just trying to gather if you're asking me w what was my interview thought, I was just trying to get as much detail as possible.

1:21:18 Timothy: Sure, I gotcha.

1:21:19 Timothy: And I hear you that it's chaotic.

1:21:21 Timothy: It's interesting saying, yeah, there was a telepromp with some instructions, right?

1:21:24 Timothy: It wasn't instructions about the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, um, you know, you don't want to come to the wrong decision.

1:21:30 Timothy: This is what the word evidence means.

1:21:33 Timothy: They're gonna keep these people as dumb as possible.

1:21:36 Timothy: So you create this creatic mindset going on, and then you you you find out who you can manipulate the best.

1:21:41 Timothy: Sure.

1:21:42 Timothy: Keep going.

1:21:43 SPEAKER_22: And uh, you know, be courteous, that kind of thing.

1:21:46 Jacob: And so you're sitting there, how long did they make you wait before your name is called?

1:21:50 Timothy: Okay, I sorry to interrupt again, we're gonna have to pause.

1:21:52 Timothy: Jacob, if you gotta tell a group of people to be co courteous, they don't need to be serving on a jury pool.

1:21:57 Timothy: Sure, yeah.

1:21:58 Timothy: Go ahead.

1:22:00 SPEAKER_22: Wow, let's see.

1:22:01 SPEAKER_22: I think I was in there maybe about thirty minutes.

1:22:05 Jacob: Okay, thirty minutes.

1:22:06 Jacob: Okay, so then what happens?

1:22:09 SPEAKER_22: Okay, so then your name is called, and then you go up to this desk, you get a number, um everybody has assigned like a certain number, and then you're instructed to go to a courtroom.

Inside The Courtroom And Case Setup

1:22:21 Jacob: Okay.

1:22:23 SPEAKER_22: So I was given my number, and then I was instructed to go to Judge uh Gain's courtroom on the fourth floor.

1:22:31 SPEAKER_22: And so I went up there, Judge Brian Gain.

1:22:33 SPEAKER_22: It was his courtroom.

1:22:41 SPEAKER_22: And so we went up to went up to his courtroom, and again, there's 50 of us.

1:22:46 SPEAKER_22: It's just it was a very small courtroom.

1:22:48 SPEAKER_22: And I wondered how are we all gonna get in there?

1:22:51 SPEAKER_22: So people went in and they all sat down, and of course there wasn't enough room, and then there and then the judge said, Okay, well everybody just go up to the jury box that are left that are still looking for seats.

1:23:02 SPEAKER_22: So we went up and kind of I I was one of the ones that went up to the jury box.

1:23:08 SPEAKER_22: And then at that point, they told us some things um you know, about the case.

1:23:14 SPEAKER_13: Okay.

1:23:15 SPEAKER_22: And so this particular case was the state of Washington versus Bernard Bellarosa.

1:23:22 Timothy: Uh Jacob, let's let's pause here at the moment.

1:23:24 Timothy: She's gonna start getting into the actual case here.

1:23:26 Timothy: We've kind of gone a little bit long introducing this, so much injustice, so little time.

1:23:31 Timothy: You'd think there's a holy guy gonna come back and just burn it all down and start over.

1:23:35 Timothy: Go ahead and play something.

1:23:39 Timothy: If you're going to jury duty and showing up, you could take this with you.

1:23:44 Timothy: Go for it, Jacob.

1:23:48 SPEAKER_05: Jury duty goads goad one.

1:23:51 SPEAKER_05: If it's not illegal, prosecutors need to shut up.

1:23:55 SPEAKER_05: Goad two.

1:23:56 SPEAKER_05: Plea bargains are the final word.

1:23:58 SPEAKER_05: Just say no to extortion.

1:24:00 SPEAKER_05: Yes is yes, no is no.

1:24:04 SPEAKER_05: Anything beyond is from the devil.

1:24:07 SPEAKER_05: Matthew 537.

1:24:09 SPEAKER_05: Goad three.

1:24:10 SPEAKER_05: If liars for the prosecution are not punished, judges are wicked.

1:24:15 SPEAKER_05: If a ruler listens to lies, all his officials become wicked.

1:24:20 SPEAKER_05: Proverbs 2912.

1:24:21 SPEAKER_05: Let us consider jury duty on the Consider Podcast.

1:24:26 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.

1:24:29 SPEAKER_05: www.consider.info where the river meets the road.

1:24:38 Timothy: I'm afraid society is like the frogs in a frying pan.

1:24:42 Timothy: Have you you ever heard that analogy before?

1:24:44 Timothy: It's kind of a true thing, Jacob.

1:24:45 Timothy: Yeah.

1:24:46 Timothy: For those that haven't, you put a frog in a frying pan and you slowly turn the heat up, the frog won't jump out because it just gets used to it.

1:24:53 Timothy: We're so used to the corruption that goes on, we don't even think about it, or it has to be so bad before you wake up.

1:25:01 Timothy: Just think of the reform that would happen when I the first thing mentioned, and I didn't throw a scripture in on it, we'll do it later, but if the prosecution is prosecuting that which is illegal, they shouldn't be allowed to bring up anything that is legal.

1:25:16 Timothy: I mean, that's just logical.

1:25:17 Timothy: That's just reasonable, that's fundamental law.

1:25:20 Timothy: That if they're going to accuse you of a crime, then it can only be uh specifically about that crime.

1:25:26 Timothy: Not tattoos, not your religion, not your skin color, not not how the family feels wounded or how people are hurting.

1:25:34 Timothy: Only that which is actually illegal should be brought in.

1:25:39 Timothy: Just think trials would move forward.

1:25:41 Timothy: Of course, the prosecution have a hard time bankrupting you so that you could actually put up a defense.

1:25:46 Timothy: It would narrow the focus what police do.

1:25:48 Timothy: This hate crime nonsense would just go away.

1:25:50 Timothy: You know, nah, I won't go sidetracked.

1:25:53 Timothy: You get my point on that one, right?

1:25:54 Timothy: Yeah.

1:25:55 Timothy: That's just reasonable.

1:25:57 Timothy: To bring in all these emotions and these other things that these prosecutors bring in, and you show up for jury duty and that doesn't affect you, then you deserve to be on jury.

1:26:07 Timothy: That's all I gotta say.

1:26:08 Timothy: You're so dumb and stupid and such an unrepentant fool.

1:26:12 Timothy: And by the way, when I use fool and dumb and stupid, I'm talking about a foolishness and a stupidity and a dumbness that you can repent of, not looking down on somebody.

1:26:21 Timothy: I was I was born a fool, and God has had to crucify me and change me so that I'm no longer a fool.

1:26:28 Timothy: But if you walk into a courtroom and that prosecutor and the judge is allowing anything, anything into that courtroom that is not specifically illegal, I personally, no matter what the crime is, would vote for, I don't know how you want to word it, come to the conclusion not guilty.

1:26:46 Timothy: I'm not supporting a system that is so far corrupt, for which they refuse to change, they just go underground more and more.

1:26:54 Timothy: Can't do it.

1:26:54 Timothy: I'm not going to lose my soul and my relationship with God by participating in something that is so vile and sinister and corrupt.

1:27:02 Timothy: The other things that go on, we'll go back to that later, let your yes be yes.

1:27:06 Timothy: Look, if prosecutors say, look, if you take this plea deal, let's say it's four years plea deal, right?

1:27:13 Timothy: Then that's all that crime is worth.

1:27:15 Timothy: They shouldn't be allowed to extort, and that's what it is, to come in and go, well, if you don't take our plea deal, then we're gonna go to life in prison in the electric chair and to be tortured in Guamatal Bay and so on and so forth.

1:27:28 Timothy: Your yes is yes, your no is no.

1:27:30 Timothy: If you think it's worthy enough to go to somebody and go, here's the plea bargain agreement, you can take it or not, they the prosecution should not be allowed to move on to anything else.

1:27:41 Timothy: Really, it should be the prosecution comes in with the plea bargain, the person goes, Okay, I'll accept the plea bargain or I'll go for trial based on the plea bargain.

1:27:50 Timothy: That's a right, that's a privilege, that's fundamental.

1:27:53 Timothy: Anything else deviating from that is absolutely not only is it corruption, not only is it unlikely.

1:28:00 Timothy: Lawful, not only is it unconstitutional, not only is it immoral, not only is it a violation of the Bill of Rights, it's also the damnation of prosecutor souls and the damnation of the soul of judges.

1:28:12 Timothy: Jesus says in Matthew 5 37, simply let your yes be yes and your no be no.

1:28:17 Timothy: Anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

1:28:24 Timothy: They're being inspired, right?

1:28:25 Timothy: Their God is their stomach, their glory is their shame.

1:28:29 Timothy: Because why?

1:28:30 Timothy: They worship their belly.

1:28:31 Timothy: Jacob, take us out of here.

1:28:34 SPEAKER_20: This has been the Consider Podcast with your hosts, Timothy and Jacob, where the whole gospel message has been used to examine today's wisdom, folly, and madness.

1:28:44 SPEAKER_20: For more information, drop by www.consider.info.

1:28:49 SPEAKER_20: The Consider Podcast.

1:28:51 SPEAKER_20: Examining today's wisdom, folly, and madness with the whole gospel.

1:29:09 SPEAKER_19: The Justice and Legal segment on the Consider Podcast is only concerned with calling all individuals to repentance.

1:29:15 SPEAKER_19: No matter which side of the bar one is on, the demand is for repentance in accordance with Amos 524.

1:29:20 SPEAKER_19: Let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream.

1:29:24 SPEAKER_19: Nothing discussed should be considered legal advice.

1:29:26 SPEAKER_19: Want legal advice?

1:29:27 SPEAKER_19: Pay a lawyer.

1:29:28 SPEAKER_19: Want justice?

1:29:29 SPEAKER_19: Pray to the holy God.

1:29:30 SPEAKER_19: As the living God recorded in Deuteronomy 16.20, all must follow justice and justice alone.

1:29:35 SPEAKER_19: The listener assumes all responsibility for their actions or refusal to act in accordance with justice and justice alone.

1:29:41 SPEAKER_19: Because the legal system hides their corrupt deeds in darkness, any discussion is fraught with inadequate information.

1:29:47 SPEAKER_19: The listener should keep in mind that the news media only communicates what sells.

1:29:50 SPEAKER_19: Finally, make note that the vast majority of what is called legal is in fact not lawful.

1:29:54 SPEAKER_19: The Consider Podcast.

1:29:56 SPEAKER_19: Examining today's wisdom, madness, and folly.

1:29:58 SPEAKER_19: Www.consider.info.

Corruption And The Call To Repent

1:30:01 Timothy: Let us continue to consider jury manipulation.

1:30:06 SPEAKER_20: Welcome to the Consider Podcast, where the whole gospel message is used to examine today's wisdom, folly, and madness.

1:30:14 SPEAKER_20: Acts 5.20.

1:30:16 SPEAKER_20: Go, stand, and speak to the people in the temple the whole message of this life.

1:30:21 SPEAKER_20: Join the hosts Timothy and Jacob as they pick up their cross to follow Jesus, as we pray that God enlightens the mind, according to verse 25 of Ecclesiastes chapter 7.

1:30:33 SPEAKER_20: So, I turned my mind to understand, to investigate, and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things, and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly.

1:30:44 SPEAKER_20: Ecclesiastes 7.25.

1:30:47 SPEAKER_20: The Consider Podcast, examining today's wisdom, folly, and madness with the whole gospel.info.

1:30:58 Timothy: How's it going, Jacob?

1:30:59 Timothy: It's going good.

1:31:00 Timothy: Yesterday at this time we had like serious snowfall, didn't stick.

1:31:04 Timothy: Now we've got real problems.

1:31:05 Timothy: The sunshine is out.

1:31:07 Timothy: I like it.

1:31:08 Timothy: Jacob, why is there so much corruption?

1:31:13 Timothy: Whether it be the legal corruption or corruption in the world or downtown or whatever, why is the world just full of corruption?

1:31:23 Timothy: Because people are corrupt.

1:31:26 Timothy: That's not really an answer.

1:31:28 Timothy: That's just a rephrasing of the question.

1:31:30 Timothy: So why the corruption?

1:31:33 Timothy: Why the corruption?

1:31:34 Timothy: Yeah, in other words, if I were to say, okay, let's get rid of all corruption at any level, whether it's in the family or in the home and government, on down the line.

1:31:43 Timothy: Because after all, it's individuals that allow the corruption to continue around us anyway.

1:31:47 Timothy: So why is how would we get rid of corruption?

1:31:51 Timothy: What's what's the solution?

1:31:52 Timothy: Because we could spend all day long whining about jury manipulation or the legal system or the Democrats or the Republicans.

1:32:01 Timothy: You know, you just because the corruption's everywhere.

1:32:03 Timothy: So you could just pick a topic.

1:32:05 Timothy: But that doesn't offer anybody a solution.

1:32:07 Jacob: Um corruption is sin, and so the only way to solve sin is to repent.

1:32:14 Jacob: True.

1:32:14 Timothy: What what is the sin though that allows the corruption to take place?

1:32:22 Jacob: Well, there can be a lot of sins because corruption could take place because somebody's greedy, the love of money, uh, you know, you could have prosecutors that are just wanting to be high on power.

1:32:33 Jacob: There could be a variety of reasons why one person's corruption then allows somebody else's corruption.

1:32:40 Timothy: You're correct.

1:32:40 Timothy: Let me hone that down or see if I can hone that down a little bit.

1:32:43 Timothy: The reason there is so much corruption is that we want something.

1:32:49 Timothy: The person who's been wounded by their neighbor wants vengeance.

1:32:53 Timothy: The businessman that is greedy wants money.

1:32:57 Timothy: The prosecutors want power and the side benefit they don't want to be examined.

1:33:02 Timothy: So the best way to do that, of course, is to constantly accuse other people.

1:33:06 Timothy: So there what brings about and allows for corruption is really pretty simple.

1:33:11 Timothy: Each person just wants something.

1:33:13 Timothy: If there's corruption in my life, then I just want something.

1:33:17 Timothy: What you have to deal with is a desire of what I want.

1:33:21 Timothy: Think of all the religious corruption that's out there.

1:33:24 Timothy: Why is that?

1:33:25 Timothy: I'm kind of giving the answer, but why is there so much religious corruption?

1:33:29 Timothy: I remember very, very early on, and we were laughing about this this morning.

1:33:32 Timothy: I really have to up my game and say 40 years ago or almost 50 years, but I'm gonna go 40 years ago.

1:33:39 Timothy: First started preaching, people were always complaining about the compromise in the church or you know, it wasn't doing this part biblically.

1:33:47 Timothy: All right, fine.

1:33:48 Timothy: So then I had a meeting where I brought all these people together, meaning I invited them.

1:33:52 Timothy: They came together and we then began to pursue and I began to present solutions, okay.

1:33:58 Timothy: Well, let's do this and this.

1:34:00 Timothy: Nobody wanted to.

1:34:01 Timothy: They wanted to spend their time whining about the corruption, but not dealing with the corruption.

1:34:07 Timothy: Probably DBing a little bit, but why is it that we have so much corruption and we allow so much corruption?

1:34:18 Jacob: Why?

1:34:18 Jacob: Well, well, why do we allow the well it's the same thing that you said.

1:34:23 Jacob: Everybody wants something, so then or and they want it more than doing away with the corruption.

1:34:28 Jacob: So you can have people that whine about the corruption, and then you're like, well, what are you doing about it?

1:34:32 Jacob: And if they're not doing anything, then they desire their comfort or their position in life or whatever it may be.

1:34:38 Jacob: It's it's not, you know, the balance of dealing with the corruption does not outweigh, so then all they do is whine about it.

1:34:45 Timothy: Bottom line is we want our particular corruptions while making the other person give up their corruption, but if we actually start to deal with their corruption in an effective manner, then we're gonna have to deal with our own corruption.

1:34:57 Timothy: Correct.

1:34:58 Timothy: Let's go to John 12.25, because this is a solution to all corruptions.

1:35:03 Timothy: Right here, we're gonna look at John 12.25 and verse 26.

1:35:08 Timothy: Here is a solution to legal corruption, money corruption.

1:35:12 Timothy: Let's just go down the line, building airplane corruption where the the planes are falling out of the sky and doors are falling off.

1:35:19 Timothy: You pick a corruption.

1:35:21 Timothy: This is the solution.

1:35:22 Timothy: John twelve twenty-five and twenty-six.

1:35:24 Timothy: Go ahead and read that, Jacob.

1:35:26 Jacob: The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life and this world will keep it for eternal life.

1:35:33 Jacob: Whoever serves me must follow me, and where I am my servant also will be.

1:36:17 Timothy: They have to hate their laziness or the unconcern or the lack of love or the diligence and the self-discipline.

1:36:24 Timothy: They just want to take their check and go.

1:36:26 Timothy: I don't know what actually motivates the specific, and it really doesn't matter.

1:36:30 Timothy: The the thing is the man building the airplane or the woman building the airplane doesn't hate their own life, doesn't hate their own corruption.

1:36:37 Timothy: So when they look at a piece that kind of doesn't fit together and they don't want to hassle with it, they're not hating the laziness in their own life.

1:36:46 Timothy: That makes sense?

1:36:46 Timothy: Yep.

1:36:47 Timothy: So the solution is not just to hate your own life.

1:36:50 Timothy: People kind of get to a point where, you know, when I first shared the scripture with people, they go, oh no, I hate my life.

1:36:55 Timothy: No, no, no.

1:36:56 Timothy: This isn't like a suicidal thing or I hate this world.

1:37:00 Timothy: Almost everybody will say that.

1:37:02 Timothy: You have to do verse 26 of John 12.

1:37:05 Timothy: Whoever serves me must follow me.

1:37:07 Timothy: It is only by hating my own life, my own corruptions, my own sins, then I turn and begin to follow Jesus Christ, who is the embodiment of truth, who then can work righteousness, holiness, truth, and purity in my life.

1:37:24 Timothy: That's really the only type of true Christian.

1:37:26 Timothy: It's called a disciple of Jesus.

1:37:28 Timothy: My father will honor the one who serves me.

1:37:30 Timothy: If you want the truth, if you want to deal with corruption, guess what?

1:37:34 Timothy: It begins with you, and it begins with me.

1:37:36 Timothy: It begins on an individual level.

1:37:38 Timothy: Before I ever start looking at, say, what politicians are doing, or before I can say, you know, what the person building the airplane is or law enforcement or those in prison or lawyers or prosecutors, unless I'm an absolute total hypocrite, which there are plenty of those, because why?

1:37:54 Timothy: People love the corruption of being a hypocrite, don't they?

1:37:57 Timothy: You don't have to deal with anything and you can feel all superior, and then you can point fingers at everybody else.

1:38:02 Timothy: If I hate my pride, if I hate those things, I'm going to allow Jesus as I follow him to work the truth within me.

1:38:10 Timothy: Now, the world's going to crucify you, but we know that story.

1:38:13 Timothy: Any comment before we move on?

1:38:14 Timothy: Because I wanted to offer the solution here.

1:38:17 Timothy: We're not just whining, we're not just complaining.

1:38:19 Timothy: This is a real, viable, real solution to the corruption that's in the legal system or the jury pool or whatever it might be.

1:38:28 Timothy: All you got to do is say, look, everybody here hate their own life, hate their pride that wants to condemn a man, or hate your life that wants to let them go, hate your opinions, hate your thoughts, and let Jesus Christ give us the truth of what his love and righteousness and justice would work.

1:38:44 Timothy: Make sense?

1:38:45 Timothy: All right.

1:38:46 Timothy: Go ahead and play the clip that says, save yourself from this corrupt generation, because this is what really these podcasts are about.

1:38:53 Timothy: I'm not trying to reform the world because Jesus is going to come back and burn it all down and start over.

1:38:58 Timothy: It can't be reformed, but you can call people to repentance out of it.

1:39:07 SPEAKER_05: It's time to get razor sharp.

1:39:10 SPEAKER_05: Double-edged sword razor sharp.

1:39:13 SPEAKER_05: Sharper than any sword in the world sharp.

1:39:17 SPEAKER_05: Scripture sharp.

1:39:18 SPEAKER_05: Ready?

1:39:19 SPEAKER_05: Here it is.

1:39:21 SPEAKER_05: Peter preached, save yourselves from this corrupt generation.

1:39:25 SPEAKER_05: Acts 240.

1:39:27 SPEAKER_05: Not save yourself from sins.

1:39:30 SPEAKER_05: Not save yourself from Democrats.

1:39:32 SPEAKER_05: Not save yourself from Armageddon, but saved from this corrupt generation.

1:39:39 SPEAKER_05: This generation's corrupted religion.

1:39:42 SPEAKER_05: This generation's corrupted laws.

1:39:45 SPEAKER_05: This generation's corrupted hearts and lives.

1:39:51 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.

1:40:15 Timothy: These podcasts are really just many other words with a pleading to save yourself from this corrupt generation.

1:40:21 Timothy: This is nothing more than a plea for King County, Seattle prosecutors to save themselves from the corruption that not only have condemned innocent men, but also condemned innocent individuals and have just corrupted the whole legal system.

1:40:35 Timothy: This is a pleading to repent, and that is the beginning and the end of the whole discussion.

1:40:40 Timothy: You know, Jacob, I began to bump into some people making a comment as I put these together and they listen to podcasts, they'll go, man, it must really be bad in the town or the city or the state that you live in, as if everything I'm talking about is kind of out of the norm.

1:40:58 Timothy: It's human nature to want to kind of bury our heads in the sand, you know, we we want to love our own life.

1:41:03 Timothy: We don't want to look up and look around because then the responsibility becomes huge.

1:41:07 Timothy: Most people just want to go to jury duty or not go and just kind of leave it at that.

1:41:11 Timothy: But if you actually take life seriously and realize that every word and every step and everything that we do has eternal significance, that that's a a cross to carry, right?

1:41:21 Timothy: Correct.

1:41:21 Timothy: And most people just don't want to carry the cross.

1:41:25 Timothy: Tell them and we were talking about this the other day, like, okay, is it really that bad or are they just not noticing?

1:41:33 Jacob: I think it's a combination.

1:41:34 Jacob: I was looking up the other day, there was uh uh some stats on jury duty which are hard to track because uh there's a lot of counties.

1:41:41 Jacob: But if you look at at the uh a state court level or a federal court level, um the percentage of of the population out of you know millions of Americans is actually quite low.

1:41:51 Jacob: So the only reason I say that is because uh a lot there's people's perspective of the um excuse me.

1:41:58 Jacob: People's perspective of the entire court system, right?

1:42:01 Jacob: Unless you've had a family member that's gone through it.

1:42:04 Jacob: Um there's a lot of people that just have never even served on a jury in their life.

1:42:08 Jacob: A lot of people have been completely untouched from by the judicial system at all.

1:42:12 Jacob: So some of it is ignorance, some of it, yeah, maybe it is wishful thinking that like it'll never happen to me.

1:42:18 Jacob: I mean, to be honest, even with the the the hate crime that happened to us, up until that point, I would have never guessed that the police officer could just, you know, make up stuff.

1:42:28 Jacob: You know what I mean?

1:42:28 Jacob: Like until it happened to us, I did never know too how bad it is.

1:42:33 Jacob: You don't know how bad it is until you've gone through it.

1:42:35 Timothy: I still stagger and shake my head that he was able to make it up.

1:42:41 Timothy: Nobody bothered to do checks and balances.

1:42:44 Timothy: There was zero checks and balances.

1:42:45 Timothy: Well, he was able to commit horrendous crimes and they just remain silent.

1:42:50 Timothy: They just won't say anything and let's just let it run.

1:42:52 Timothy: I hear you.

1:42:52 Jacob: It is but but that's just my point is that's a too.

1:42:55 Jacob: Until it happens to you, you don't know.

1:42:57 Jacob: So even though a lot of people they're like, Well, oh man, uh you know, the things you're talking about, wow, that sounds bad.

1:43:03 Jacob: Well, it is that bad, but you've never bumped into it yet.

1:43:06 Timothy: That is correct.

1:43:07 Timothy: I can remember at one point, among many situations, I was talking to a police officer, or I forget, I think it was by email, I'm not sure.

1:43:13 Timothy: And I said, Yeah, I want to talk to the police officers.

1:43:16 Timothy: And man, did I ever get slapped back down?

1:43:18 Timothy: Like, don't go there, don't do that.

1:43:20 Timothy: And so I'm drawn back because you really expect these people to be normal.

1:43:23 Timothy: You expect them to be rational and moral like you, and they're not.

1:43:27 Jacob: Or not even or or not even moral, but just rational.

1:43:29 Jacob: Like you're just a regular citizen.

1:43:32 Jacob: Like, why are you treating me like this?

1:43:34 Jacob: But no, they are not.

1:43:35 Jacob: They are not regular citizens.

1:43:36 Timothy: And we're talking about on just a human level.

1:43:38 Timothy: Yeah, the fact you're a police offer.

1:43:40 Timothy: Like, wait a minute.

1:43:41 Timothy: This is not this is not how I have to obey.

1:43:43 Timothy: So yeah, I know it's staggering because it was just so basic, and you go, wow, it's really that corrupt.

1:43:50 Timothy: It's it's all the way to the core.

1:43:53 Timothy: Uh okay.

1:43:54 Timothy: Well, let's press on a little bit as we move into things.

Ex Cons On Juries And Voting

1:43:57 Timothy: Jacob, should ex-cons be allowed to vote?

1:44:02 Timothy: And there's a sub-question and we'll get to.

1:44:04 Timothy: Should ex-cons, sex prisoners, be allowed to serve on jury duty?

1:44:09 Jacob: Oh, so it's two separate questions.

1:44:12 Jacob: I think um I think that yes.

1:44:14 Jacob: I don't know.

1:44:14 Jacob: I have no uh clue on the history of that law, but in today's uh in today's, you know, yeah, they should be able to do both.

1:44:22 Jacob: They should be able to have the opportunity to do both.

1:44:25 Timothy: Absolutely, I agree.

1:44:26 Timothy: When you when you especially when you look at jury duty, they weed out anybody that's kind of well, they weed anybody that has a little bit of intelligence, right?

1:44:33 Jacob: Exactly, because if you've been to prison, you've been through that system.

1:44:37 Jacob: So you should at least have the same shot to show up and be selected for jury duty, right?

1:44:42 Jacob: And you know the dirty tricks, and you know the jury.

1:44:44 Timothy: You know the lying of the prosecutors.

1:44:46 Timothy: And I was kind of just thinking about this this morning on jury duty, and I'll come back to the voting thing here in a moment.

1:44:51 Timothy: At least allow ex-cons prisoners to serve as an advisory to the jury, do jury.

1:44:58 Timothy: If you don't want to go all the way and go, well, they're vengeance that will spare me the hyperbole, moralistic talk.

1:45:05 Timothy: You asked, you are literally asking people to lie, like, will you set aside your opinions?

1:45:10 Timothy: And they all go, yeah.

1:45:10 Timothy: So everybody does it.

1:45:12 Timothy: At least with there's a lot of ex-cons who know their ex-cons who are just realistic about the system.

1:45:18 Timothy: And if you're serving on jury duty, at a minimum, there should at least be one, maybe two, that serve so the the the they could input and comment into the juries that are back there trying to deliberate between guilty and not guilty and offer their advice.

1:45:32 Timothy: That's a minimum.

1:45:33 Timothy: Now, do I think they should be able to sure serve on jury duty?

1:45:36 Timothy: Absolutely, I think so.

1:45:38 Timothy: For one thing, then I can just hear the prosecutors whining and I can hear the legislators just screaming like, well, you can't do that.

1:45:45 Timothy: You can't allow that.

1:45:46 Timothy: Yeah, I could.

1:45:46 Timothy: If you cleaned up the laws so they were clear, and there wasn't this corruption of parole and this and that and 50,000 other things, there'd be this clear definition of what is right and wrong and where to go and who these people are, whether they should be let loose or not.

1:46:02 Timothy: Instead, we see this it's a complete corruption where you just don't know which laws are going to apply to which person or for which reason, and it just gets all complicated.

1:46:09 Timothy: Then it gets into the system, and if they were this or they were that, and then if they're on the parole or we'll do this over here, you get my point.

1:46:14 Timothy: It just gets corrupted.

1:46:15 Timothy: And eventually, of course, the the the prisoners or the ex-cons, they just give up.

1:46:20 Timothy: It's just bad parenting.

1:46:21 Timothy: Correct.

1:46:21 Timothy: You know, scripture says we're not supposed to exasperate our children.

1:46:24 Timothy: We are a nation that is exasperated by prosecutors and by the laws and the legislators, because you eventually throw up your hands and go, what's the point of trying?

1:46:33 Timothy: Because the no-law is clear, everything is so broad, and that if a prosecutor gets up in the morning and she's a woman and it's the bad time of the month, she's just gonna come after you because she just feels like it.

1:46:43 Timothy: And of course, the feminized prosecutors in there will allow all the emotions to run wild.

1:46:48 Timothy: We were flat out told, Well, if we believe it, we're gonna do it.

1:46:52 Timothy: Well, I I can't argue belief, but I can argue facts, I can argue evidence, I can be rational, but they throw all that out of the window.

1:47:01 Timothy: Back again.

1:47:02 Timothy: Should excons be allowed to vote?

1:47:05 Jacob: Um uh again, I think I think nowadays, yes.

1:47:11 Jacob: Um I don't I don't know again the history of all that.

1:47:14 Jacob: You know, I I I I don't know the history of it, but if you go read the history of why they took those supposed rights away, I I wouldn't I wouldn't be shocked with the logic or the reason at the time.

1:47:23 Jacob: And by that I mean even I know I'm going back to should should Cons be on jury duty.

1:47:28 Jacob: Um but even even you know well a hundred years ago probably, right?

1:47:32 Jacob: Like, you know, the the judges were much more fair.

1:47:36 Jacob: They m were much more, you know.

1:47:39 Timothy: I I I don't know that that's true.

1:47:41 Timothy: Okay, well, yeah, that's okay.

1:47:43 Timothy: I don't really care what the reason is in the what yeah.

1:47:47 Timothy: The bottom line is the XCON knows the system, they know what's going on, and there's so much corruption in the law.

1:47:54 Timothy: Well, they're the people I want to go to and go, okay, how did this all materialize to you?

1:47:58 Timothy: How did they corrupt things?

1:48:00 Timothy: You know what a lot of the cons will say I deserve to be here.

1:48:03 Timothy: I mean, I committed the crime.

1:48:04 Timothy: Not obviously not everybody, but there's a good portion that don't deserve to be there or are there for the wrong reasons because of a plea bargain.

1:48:10 Timothy: And so we got this fraud going on within the judicial system.

1:48:13 Timothy: Well, who knows it better?

1:48:14 Timothy: You don't go ask a prosecutor, you don't ask a policeman, you certainly don't ask a judge, well, where's the fraud?

1:48:20 Timothy: Because they don't have any.

1:48:21 Timothy: It's the cons that have experienced it.

1:48:23 Timothy: It's you and I that have experienced.

1:48:25 Timothy: We could testify, we we could point specifically this, this, this, and this.

1:48:29 Jacob: It's not hard to do because we went through it.

1:48:31 Jacob: Well, okay, but so I think I'm gonna take a stab at it, only because we're talking about this now.

1:48:36 Jacob: Okay, let's say there was a prosecutor named Bob.

1:48:38 Jacob: Let's just say that there was a uh a crime that happened, and it was there was real evidence.

1:48:42 Jacob: So we're talking there was real evidence that the guy stole stuff, and Bob the prosecutor, prosecutes him, right?

1:48:48 Jacob: He stole cars, I don't know, but it was a real thing.

1:48:51 Jacob: He's a criminal.

1:48:52 Jacob: He does his time, he's back out on the streets, and then he still may have this bias against the prosecutor that he put me in jail, even though the guy is guilty, because he may be one of these people that doesn't freely admit, okay, yeah, I was a I was a bad criminal.

1:49:06 Jacob: So then his bias supposedly comes into the courtroom against this prosecutor, and no matter because even again, if the next case around is still a legitimate case, I I'm guessing that's where they threw out threw that out, right?

1:49:18 Jacob: They don't want all the bias seeping into the courtroom.

1:49:20 Jacob: Well, that would be that would hold true.

1:49:22 Jacob: Everything you said is actually a true statement.

1:49:24 Jacob: But that's the problem back in the day is when they came up with that kind of stuff.

1:49:27 Timothy: Uh nowadays it's horrible.

1:49:28 Timothy: I if they even offered an excuse today, it'd be the same excuse.

1:49:32 Timothy: Here's the problem with that.

1:49:34 Timothy: Everybody that comes into the jury system is biased.

1:49:38 Timothy: Everybody.

1:49:39 Timothy: And they're weeding out anybody that would do any critical examination of the legal system.

1:49:44 Timothy: So you you have the same bias people sitting there.

1:49:47 Jacob: It's just the bias you want.

1:49:49 Jacob: Okay, well, so that's the other question, though, that even if the even if the felon had um they would weed him out anyway.

1:49:55 Jacob: So let's just say he did have that right.

1:49:56 Jacob: He shows up for the jury selection process, and then as soon as it's revealed that he doesn't like the prosecutors or he doesn't like a particular judge, they're gonna weed him out anyway.

1:50:04 Jacob: So I understand what you're saying.

1:50:05 Jacob: You are correct.

1:50:06 Jacob: Like everybody has a bias.

1:50:07 Jacob: It's just a matter of which way and and who they're gonna get rid of.

1:50:10 Timothy: Man, I didn't know I was going to open a whole discussion, but I'm in no rush.

1:50:13 Timothy: Okay, here's the solution to that problem.

1:50:16 Timothy: They can only weed out so many people.

1:50:17 Timothy: So if all of a sudden we passed a law that said anybody that's an ex con that served their time and it's done and over with kind of situation can't serve on a jury pool and show up, right?

1:50:28 Timothy: They can't get rid of everybody.

1:50:29 Timothy: This is a huge segment of the population.

1:50:32 Timothy: Our government and the conservative Christians and everybody that was all for law and order versus justice has created this huge pool of vindictiveness and bias and all kinds of problems.

1:50:46 Timothy: But it's actually based on a great deal of truth.

1:50:49 Timothy: So all I'm saying is it would have an effect on the system.

1:50:52 Timothy: I think what would happen if it and we're in fantasy land here really if it happened prosecutors and judges and then would start cleaning up their act.

1:51:01 Timothy: I I would think yes this is nothing more than a quality control report.

1:51:04 Jacob: It's just another it's just another form of checks and balances.

1:51:07 Timothy: Correct.

1:51:07 Jacob: It's just a matter of that everybody should be able to say their piece.

1:51:10 Jacob: They have the right to say what you know the con would have the right to say what happened to them.

1:51:14 Timothy: Trevor Burrus There should at least be an evaluation report for every judge and prosecutor that is ever experienced in a trial and go what do you think?

1:51:20 Timothy: Were they fair?

1:51:21 Timothy: Was this was it true?

1:51:23 Timothy: There's no quality check except them of course which means there's not only is there not quality there's like pat me on the back kind of thing.

1:51:31 Timothy: Correct.

1:51:32 Jacob: But I agree by giving cons these these rights back would certainly only benefit the system.

1:51:38 Jacob: It would not hinder it.

1:51:40 Timothy: The discussion would be led like this like this is just one minor point.

1:51:43 Timothy: So you throw that out all the graffiti, the red flags go up, everybody's whining what you would condense down is a complete it would actually cause a a reform of the judicial system.

1:51:55 Timothy: You'd have to look at every single aspect rather than just one prosecutor viewpoint that oh we just need to punish everybody and we just need to have the death penalty and vengeance and those kind of things.

1:52:07 Timothy: It would open up the whole discussion where all points would come together.

1:52:11 Timothy: I'm not saying there would be a blanket law that says okay anybody and everybody that was in prison should be allowed to serve on a jury or do whatever but it is a starting point to open it up and to give look bottom line somebody serves their time and it's over with they should be returned to full citizenship.

1:52:30 Timothy: They did their time.

1:52:32 Timothy: Correct they did their time that's just honest that's just true.

1:52:35 Timothy: They should be able to put on their record I was never arrested you know he served his time they did their duty if we let them loose and be out there in society and they paid the price then they should be free.

1:52:46 Timothy: That's what freedom means which means jury duty which means what serving in every capacity getting any job there because you did your time you paid your penalty.

1:52:55 Timothy: Now I know people will whining this is getting long but would we not then consider some real reforms in society not just legal?

1:53:05 Timothy: Let me give any just one quick example that I hope I can move through pretty fast.

1:53:09 Timothy: You find a lot of women teachers sleeping with students oh send them to prison you everybody wants to come down you put them into the same system.

1:53:17 Timothy: Well why is this continuing to increase?

1:53:20 Timothy: The reason it's increasing is because we're sexualizing the schools so all of a sudden you say well if she serves her time she can vote and she can serve on jury duty what are you going to do?

1:53:30 Timothy: You're gonna be going, well you know what I don't want these people into the system.

1:53:33 Timothy: I don't want to create the crime in the first place.

1:53:36 Timothy: Vengeance is not the solution so what you do is you go back and go well how can we clean up the schools so the schools are a moral respectable place for children to go to wouldn't that fix more of the problem Jacob?

1:53:49 Jacob: Yeah it would but I I uh yeah that'll never happen.

1:53:52 Timothy: No but I would be sure voicing my opinion in jury pool.

1:53:55 Timothy: Go ahead.

1:53:56 Jacob: No no no yeah no I get what you're saying.

1:53:58 Timothy: Alright so are you against Jacob the uh against or for the death penalty?

Death Penalty Debates And Prison Reality

1:54:05 Jacob: Ooh okay uh ooh man uh well uh no I'm for it you're for the death penalty in in certain cases why okay for sure I'm sure you're not for the death penalty for jaywalking if you guys stole a car.

1:54:19 Jacob: Uh why am I for it?

1:54:20 Jacob: So gut reaction I'm for it because biblically there was certain crimes certain crimes you died.

1:54:25 Jacob: All right all right.

1:54:26 Jacob: So I think I mean our especially if we want to say that we're a Christian nation.

1:54:30 Jacob: We were based off of Christian values then okay great hold to the values certain things you didn't do.

1:54:37 Timothy: Here's my position I'm for the death penalty in principle but not in the United States.

1:54:44 Timothy: Oh well exactly because and that yeah yeah that's the thing because you you legitimately have yeah I know where you're going play the clip of this and this is actually a prisoner I think he's on parole but whatever but he enjoyable is a wrong word but I have listened to quite a bit of what he does.

1:54:58 SPEAKER_14: He does a really good job he communicates well now it's a worldly viewpoint he he's not claiming to be a Christian so so go ahead and play this particular clip let's talk about the death penalty in the United States of America there are five means by which they will execute you if you are sentenced to death in the United States lethal injection electrocution lethal gas hanging or firing squad here's my question if they let you pick which one would you choose no I'm not taking no lethal injection because I'm scared of needles.

1:55:30 SPEAKER_14: I'm not gonna take electrocution because I know I'm probably gonna my pants when I die no matter how I die, but I don't want to be aware of my pants while I'm dying hanging absolutely not bro I don't want my eyes to pop out of my head when I'm dying I don't I it just feels uncomfortable.

1:55:45 SPEAKER_14: Seems like it would be a bad deal.

1:55:46 SPEAKER_14: Now if you get hit by that firing squad and they do it right man it's over in a flash bro you ain't gonna feel nothing.

1:55:53 SPEAKER_14: And the lethal gas almost sounds like getting so high that you die and that seems like a comfortable way to go out.

1:55:59 SPEAKER_14: But which one would you guys choose?

1:56:00 Timothy: Let me know down there in the comments kind of my point real quick that if we're gonna seek out information what we should do with death penalty or not or this other these are the people I'd want to talk to sure not the person that's in charge of the medications or this particular political group and so on and so forth.

1:56:17 Timothy: All right you're for the death penalty I'm for the death penalty in principle but not in the United States because why?

1:56:26 Timothy: What are we talking about?

1:56:26 Timothy: There's too much corruption what's motivating the corruption and we'll get to this in a moment what's motivating the corruption within the death penalty issue?

1:56:37 Timothy: Go ahead and play hang it I'll let you think that through play this next clip because it kind of it really gives us a hand as if you couldn't figure it out but go ahead and play I can't pronounce it fussy in prison there.

1:56:48 SPEAKER_14: Let's talk about Aiden Fucci and what's about to happen to his ass now that he just got sentenced to life in prison.

1:56:53 SPEAKER_14: Aiden stabbed this 13 year old girl to death he stabbed her 114 times and another really relevant factor is what state is he gonna be serving his time in and unfortunately for Aiden he's in the state of Florida.

1:57:07 SPEAKER_14: So let's break this down into simple maths the crime of killing a teenage girl in the state of Florida when he gets to prison he is most certainly getting penetrated it might be a shake it might be a deal he's gonna get beat up the pissed on the beat with the lock in the sock they're gonna put sh in his food.

1:57:25 SPEAKER_14: No matter how much money his parents send him he's never gonna have nothing except the state issued stuff that they give him because nobody wants that crap.

1:57:32 SPEAKER_14: Anything else that he ever gets for the rest of his life, they are gonna take from him with violence.

1:57:37 SPEAKER_14: And it's not like his mama's gonna be able to help him out with no money anyway because she caught charges for trying to help him cover up what he did to that poor little girl.

1:57:47 Timothy: Alright Jacob before again sweet you were getting ready to expound on that a little bit on the death penalty.

1:57:52 Timothy: Go ahead.

1:57:53 Jacob: Uh well no wait because now I feel like you're you're the question's gonna be should this guy be put to should he well no try and anticipate you do that a lot don't anticipate where I'm going with it because uh that's a I'd like that one but we don't have time for it.

1:58:08 Jacob: I can't even remember now what wait so I was saying I was pro death penalty but what was the question?

1:58:14 Jacob: Were you for or against the death penalty?

1:58:16 Jacob: Well no I agree with you that I'm I'm for the death penalty but in in this country you're you're getting there is no justice so although well to big bring it back to a conversation uh that we've had previously which is that nobody really wins like the families go to the the execution date right they get to observe if they want the guy dies and then what?

1:58:39 Jacob: I I guess for some people I think some people are quoted as like oh yeah justice was done I can move on with my life but I you know what I mean?

1:58:47 Jacob: Like really?

1:58:48 Timothy: Sure.

1:58:48 Timothy: Well you're on to really what the main corruption is it's vengeance.

1:58:51 Timothy: Yeah vengeance.

1:58:52 Timothy: There's a fraud with in the law where prosecutors have substituted the word just or the word vengeance with justice.

1:59:00 Timothy: And most people's mind they're it's the same word that if they don't get vengeance through the justice system they don't get justice.

1:59:09 Timothy: And those are two different issues completely.

1:59:12 Timothy: Actually no I'm still against the the whoever the is Fosse guy getting the death penalty.

1:59:18 Timothy: The crimes he did are horrendous.

1:59:19 Timothy: That's not the point.

1:59:20 Timothy: But the prosecutors and lose them always use these people as an excuse to flood the whole system with complete corruption.

1:59:27 Timothy: So the only way to clean this up would be to go, no, you can't put anybody to death and you better take care of his life in prison because you put him away and you can't take him to the death penalty you're now responsible for his safety in prison.

1:59:40 Timothy: But here's what's going on people don't want that they want vengeance remember John 1225 the man who loves his life will lose it while the man who hates his life you have to hate your vengeance in order to get a truth about what should or should not be done.

1:59:57 Timothy: The OJ Simpson is is a classic example of and I'm saying this as sensitive as I can on a podcast where the family are living in a constant state of vengeance.

2:00:13 Timothy: And you can tell it's from what you're saying it's never going to be enough ever.

2:00:18 Timothy: OJ just died and they're still suing for more money you can they're eaten alive by it.

2:00:23 Timothy: But here's the ironic thing you have this prisoner guy talking about prison life and he'll be miserable even within a prison is there not judgments on well that's a worse crime than my crime?

2:00:37 Jacob: Oh yeah that's what he's like that last video he's saying the other inmates will kill that kid it's it's that'll happen.

2:00:44 Timothy: Correct so within a prison there's this whole looking down on somebody else well I didn't do that crime and then we're gonna we're gonna inflict justice or punishment there's even cases where a lot of times someone who's in there for abusing somebody will be killed by another prisoner and the prisoner will go, yeah I did it and he has a sense of righteousness and that what he did.

2:01:02 Timothy: But he's a prisoner who had also committed crimes.

2:01:05 Jacob: Well oh yeah I but that that's like another can of worms only that uh I mean these guys in prison are violent.

2:01:11 Jacob: I mean they want to be violent so then yeah it's somebody in prison decided who you get to shank and not shank.

2:01:16 Timothy: But they all not all but you know a bunch of them just want to shank somebody I'm gonna have to sidetrack you know now we're talking about reforming the actual prisons and the style of the prison.

2:01:27 Timothy: That's why people do what they do.

2:01:28 Timothy: And and are we doing everything in our power within prison to ensure this kind of violence and yes there's nothing about prison that's actually reforming anybody.

2:01:36 Timothy: We don't even have that mindset or even trying or if we do society kind of goes bananas.

2:01:41 Timothy: My main point here is that okay within a prison you walk up on a prison wall you go to visit within that prison are different judgments about who's worse and who's not absolutely who deserves to be beat up I mean the one guy may enjoy it.

2:01:54 Timothy: I mean the prosecutor clearly they said they were happy to go after us and destroy the church and throw us out of town and make sure that the truth can't get in.

2:02:01 Timothy: They were happy they actually used the word happy so what I'm getting to here is we're all prisoners in this world and we have to think that we're going we're headed to judgment and God has looked at us and said we are all every single person worthy of hell Hitler is worthy of hell I was worthy of hell until Jesus saved me in the same way there is nobody just like in the prison they're all prisoners they're all guilty well they're all guilty of something let's assume they're all in there for crimes that they committed in a perfect world.

2:02:37 Timothy: Supposedly all right yeah I get it so you get my point yes I get your point all we're doing really is we want vengeance we want our system of justice our idea our version our version of it too right we want the vengeance and we want it our way everybody has their way that they want it done.

2:02:54 Timothy: Exactly scripture's very clear God says vengeance is mine and we'll look at that here in just a moment no pol I I hesitate to mention any dialogue that I go on and on social media simply because I I've always kind of considered it unfair.

2:03:11 Timothy: You know somebody quotes you over here but you're not really there to communicate it.

2:03:14 Timothy: So I'm trying to be very anonymous about all this somebody discusses with policemen policemen will refer to the people that they arrest not all of them but a lot of them as the scum of the earth they think they're better than the scum of the earth.

2:03:30 Timothy: They think that they don't deserve to be punished but the other person does.

2:03:34 Timothy: When really we're all in the same prison we're all have committed crimes against God it's just a matter of when we get to hell.

2:03:41 Timothy: It's just a matter of moving through the system.

2:03:44 Timothy: Nobody's improving themselves in this world in and of themselves it takes Jesus Christ to do that.

2:03:50 Timothy: If we saw how worthless we were then we wouldn't look at the most horrendous crimes and go, oh how bad.

2:03:56 Timothy: They need to be beat up this needs to happen.

2:03:58 Timothy: Instead we would be going I need to repent and if I repent I want to preach to them to repent.

2:04:03 Timothy: Should they pay for their crime?

2:04:05 Timothy: Well of course should there be the death penalty?

2:04:07 Timothy: Of course but not within the current prison system because you've only got one the prisoner that's in prison for life that kills the abuser does he not deserve to be punished for doing that Jacob so like the kid who stabbed the teenage girl?

2:04:23 Timothy: Yeah say somebody whacks him off and kills him which is probably oh likely.

2:04:27 Jacob: Oh well yeah you uh but that's why a lot of guys are in prison for life because they'll get charges tacked on top of their charges.

2:04:34 Jacob: They never get out.

2:04:35 Timothy: Correct and so killing another guy and feeling superior in judgment we do the same thing.

2:04:39 Jacob: Yeah.

2:04:40 Timothy: We just think okay we're all guilty we're all sinners whatever and then we proceed to torment our brother or to demand vengeance when we're really praying against our own judgment.

2:04:49 Timothy: If you pray to the living God and say God I want vengeance over here or I'm seeking vengeance on no matter what they did to me if you're not as Jesus said if you don't forgive somebody from the heart you will be condemned you're only praying against yourself.

2:05:03 Timothy: You are literally telling God I hate them I want this I want this done I want you to bring justice God will say okay everybody that's my enemy I will bring justice that includes those kinds of people all right go ahead and play this uh OJ Simpson clip and he he actually the same prisoner is talking about that situation.

2:05:23 Timothy: Go ahead.

OJ Simpson And The Trap Of Vengeance

2:05:24 SPEAKER_14: Oh and in breaking news cancer got the juice and I don't care if he was found innocent he still sucks as a human being like on a spiritual level OJ case is one of those trials where I really feel like it just didn't get done right but they were able to create enough reasonable doubt for him to not get convicted and that's a real life thing in our system.

2:05:43 SPEAKER_14: And we genuinely need that because it's much better for someone who did something terrible to get away than for the wrong person, an innocent person to get convicted of something that they didn't do.

2:05:52 SPEAKER_14: But even after he was found innocent this piece of trash went on to make this book if I did it it just tells you basically if he did it this is how he would have done it.

2:06:01 SPEAKER_14: Just another way for him to cash in on the crime that I feel like he got away with and the courts felt that way too and they decided that they were going to give all of the money from his book to the families of the victims.

2:06:12 SPEAKER_14: And I hate cancer with all of my heart it's taking people that I absolutely love but yo even a broken clock is right twice a day so bye OJ Bye.

2:06:24 Jacob: Okay as as rough as I mean he terms a lot of what he said it makes sure I mean a lot of it's like without Jesus Christ it makes total sense.

2:06:33 Timothy: Oh yeah would would you not want him serving on a jury I want him on my jury.

2:06:37 Jacob: Oh yeah you want him on your jury he's communicating he'd be too swaying of other people he really has it down he does he actually does have it down the whole the the system like you've got to you gotta let these innocent people go that's better than other people getting hooked is correct.

2:06:49 Timothy: And I don't know if this is a compliment or not but he would make a great lawyer yeah he's very convincing yeah totally well realistic for one thing it's like this is the bottom line point the sad part is watching the family they have tormented themselves because they can't forgive and you can see why I don't want to get into all the OJ trial type stuff guilty not guilty that kind of routine his main point that it's better that OJ got off than innocent people go to prison is absolute right on spot on.

2:07:18 Timothy: And the judges will say that in fact except they don't do it.

2:07:21 Timothy: Oh they don't in the trial when Judge Lori kissed K Smith turned in all her glorious self-righteousness it's better I'm gonna go one further it's better that a thousand people go free.

2:07:30 Timothy: And yet everything that was done in the trial was to ensure that an innocent man went to prison.

2:07:36 Timothy: Absolute joke.

2:07:37 Timothy: We even gave her an opportunity to overturn after hearing all of the nonsense that went on she wouldn't do it of course not too puffed up in her own pride.

2:07:45 Timothy: Alright a little bit about OJ before we press on look at Proverbs chapter 28 verse 17.

2:07:51 Timothy: When you get there Jacob just go ahead and read that one Proverbs chapter 28 verse 17 verse Proverbs 2817 A man tormented by the guilt of murder will be a fugitive till death let no one support him we see that within OJ the while he's talking about the book was just a confession for a way to cash in now if you look at that much deeper he's confessing and I've looked at several interviews he did he shifts from the third person to himself he is confessing that guilt.

2:08:32 Timothy: He can't run from that what the what people need to realize I know we tend to look at murders like oh they're so hard they don't feel anything all of that kind of stuff and that may be true I'm not trying to discount that but some people on a normal I can use normal in the sense of murder but okay a normal murder or whatever a crime of passion uh an accident they're tormented by that guilt.

2:08:57 Timothy: Yeah.

2:08:58 Timothy: One reason God a lot because you think well why doesn't God just come along and strike him why doesn't God just you know didn't take care of OJ a long time ago why did it just take cancer?

2:09:07 Timothy: Again we're back to we're all in the same position.

2:09:10 Timothy: If God decided today, you know what I'm gonna destroy everybody that's corrupt and I'm gonna send immediately right now everybody that's in full of sin and injustice, guess what?

2:09:20 Timothy: The whole world would just disappear.

2:09:23 Timothy: Look at Deuteronomy chapter 32 verse 35 because if you serve on a jury pool never ever be taken in by the prosecutor or the judge's statement about the word justice.

2:09:40 Timothy: There's so many words they've corrupted from reasonable but probably at the top of the list is the word justice.

2:09:46 Timothy: When they say the word justice you just need to put the truth right there in your mind and your heart they mean vengeance you know send a message be tough I I I laugh's a wrong word because this stuff's so serious but you you laugh it'll hit the news some prosecutor he's proud of himself he pats himself on the back we're send a strong message today against you know criminals.

2:10:08 Timothy: Really?

2:10:08 Timothy: Well they've kind of missed the message so if you think you're putting all this stuff out you ain't doing nothing but causing more problems.

2:10:15 Timothy: Here's the promise for those that can accept it.

2:10:18 Timothy: Deuteronomy 32 verse 35 this is what God says it is mine to avenge there's just peace and holiness and righteousness hidden right in there.

2:10:29 Timothy: I can leave that to God while I certainly want God to reveal his truth reveal their crimes in you know sooner than later that's my position I'm willing to wait on God.

2:10:40 Timothy: God it goes on to say in Deuteronomy 3235 I will repay.

2:10:44 Timothy: He'll do it in and he's perfect.

2:10:47 Timothy: He knows exactly how to do it.

2:10:49 Timothy: He knows I mean I hate to say but let's just pick the worst criminal you think in prison.

2:10:53 Timothy: We don't know that they're going to repent and that we don't know that the the the uh Baptist cop who set us up and committed crimes is never going to repent.

2:11:01 Timothy: We don't know which one is which so we wait upon God to bring and on it let's just get selfish about it if you if you have to go there he's trying to give you the listener a chance to repent to accept all of his word goes on to say in Deuteronomy 3235 in due time justice is coming it is rolling forward I have so much information on the corruption God may have me reveal some of it now but if not I'm preparing for the case that's to come in due time their foot will slip their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them.

2:11:42 Timothy: The problem is we are so self centered and we want our justice at the moment we don't realize how fleeting life is I don't you know OJ commits the crime he's dead now.

2:12:00 Timothy: If you're just sitting there looking at the clock going, he's alive, he's alive, I hate him, I hate him, I want my vengeance, I want my money, I want all that stuff.

2:12:07 Timothy: Every second of every minute takes on a sense of eternity, and it just seems like it never ends.

2:12:13 Timothy: And then of course, once he's dead, once you got all the money, then when you got left, you're left with vengeance all over again.

2:12:20 Timothy: There's we don't have time to look at today.

2:12:22 Timothy: We've actually covered another podcast.

2:12:23 Timothy: Jesus says God will bring justice, but will he find faith on the earth?

2:12:28 Timothy: Faith on the earth because people just don't want to wait on God.

2:12:30 Timothy: We want everything now.

2:12:32 Timothy: And when we do that, we rob ourselves of, okay, how can I get this person to change?

2:12:38 Timothy: Or how can I glorify God?

2:12:39 Timothy: Or what's the most loving thing to do?

2:12:41 Timothy: Don't we realize that when we deprive somebody else of rights because we want our vengeance, we're attacking ourselves, or we're attacking our children who might get in trouble, or the laws become more and more corrupt.

2:12:54 Timothy: They can arrest anybody.

2:12:55 Timothy: I guarantee you, everything's got the laws are becoming crazy.

2:12:58 Timothy: It's eventually we're just all gonna be in prison because all there's a law to cover anything and everything you do.

2:13:04 Timothy: If you're breathing, you're committing what?

2:13:06 Timothy: Social justice crime or destroying the environment.

2:13:09 Jacob: You're spreading COVID.

2:13:10 Jacob: COVID breathing.

2:13:12 Jacob: That's right.

2:13:12 Jacob: You didn't wear a match.

2:13:13 Jacob: This is very real stuff.

2:13:14 Jacob: Yeah, this is no, this is happening.

2:13:15 Timothy: They are making up these laws.

2:13:17 Timothy: All right.

2:13:18 Timothy: We got to press on.

2:13:19 Timothy: I don't think we're ever gonna get to Jan's testimony, but totally fine.

2:13:22 Timothy: There's plenty to talk about.

2:13:23 Timothy: Go ahead and play.

2:13:24 Timothy: Here's what needs to we need to re-prosecutors have lost their privileges.

2:13:32 Timothy: Bottom line.

2:13:33 Timothy: They shouldn't be allowed to change charges.

2:13:35 Timothy: We've covered that.

2:13:37 Timothy: There needs to be within anybody going into a jury pool the thought of who's causing greater harm.

2:13:44 Timothy: Right now you have prosecutorial discretion.

2:13:47 Timothy: What that really means is prosecutors can do whatever they want.

2:13:50 Timothy: If they don't like you, they can prosecute you.

2:13:51 Timothy: If they don't like your religion, if the cop doesn't like your religion, your Christianity, he can twist it up, do everything he wants, you'll be arrested, you'll be ran out of town, and somebody will be falsely accused.

2:14:01 Timothy: They have that's what prosecutorial discretion means.

2:14:05 Timothy: They can just do whatever they want.

2:14:06 Timothy: It is lawlessness in the name of the law.

2:14:09 Timothy: They've lost that privilege.

2:14:10 Timothy: So what we need to do is demand that jurors consider and think, and again, this is where ministries and churches and everything else.

2:14:19 Timothy: Look, back to our original point.

2:14:21 Timothy: There is so much corruption in every town and every city, it just doesn't get noticed.

2:14:26 Timothy: What you have to do is have the workers of Jesus Christ go into the courtroom and actually go visit the prisoners.

2:14:32 Timothy: That would solve the problem.

2:14:34 Timothy: Jesus didn't say go visit the police or the prosecutor or become a lawnmower, go visit the prisoners.

2:14:38 Timothy: Can you imagine?

2:14:39 Timothy: I would like to really sit down with this guy for a week and just talk to him about every single aspect because you're going to learn everything.

2:14:47 Timothy: And then I could take that if the last person I'm going to go talk to is a prosecutor of police, right?

2:14:51 Timothy: Correct.

2:14:52 Timothy: Not only that would be stupid.

2:14:53 Timothy: I'm not even really allowed to.

2:14:55 Timothy: Try and call a judge.

2:14:56 Timothy: I've tried to call and contact their offices.

2:14:58 Timothy: Forget it.

2:14:59 Timothy: They got this wall around them.

2:15:01 Timothy: You cannot get to them.

2:15:02 Timothy: You're hidden.

2:15:02 Timothy: All right, fine.

2:15:03 Timothy: You don't want to talk.

2:15:04 Timothy: I'll talk to the prisoners.

2:15:05 Timothy: I'll do exactly what Jesus said to do, and I will bring that into the jury pool.

2:15:10 Timothy: Go ahead and play the next clip that kind of describes this prosecutorial discretion, and we want to replace it with greater harm.

Greater Harm Over Prosecutorial Discretion

2:15:19 SPEAKER_05: Jurors need to reject prosecutorial discretion.

2:15:22 SPEAKER_05: It's time to reel in the corruption.

2:15:25 SPEAKER_05: Prosecutors have lost their privileges.

2:15:28 SPEAKER_05: It's time for the principle of greater harm.

2:15:31 SPEAKER_05: Tune in to the Consider Podcast as we discuss the greater harm principle.

2:15:36 SPEAKER_05: It is not good to be partial to the wicked or to deprive the innocent of justice.

2:15:41 SPEAKER_05: Proverbs 18.5.

2:15:44 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.

2:16:12 Timothy: If you come in with that attitude, everything then is measured.

2:16:15 Timothy: And what what the judge and the prosecutor do to juries now is say you're just supposed to focus in on the crime or the law.

2:16:21 Timothy: Well, the focus is too narrow.

2:16:23 Timothy: I'm going to look and see who's causing the greatest harm.

2:16:26 Timothy: What would happen if the police just went home?

2:16:28 Timothy: What would happen if the prosecutor just didn't go for them at all?

2:16:31 Timothy: Follow what I'm saying?

2:16:32 Jacob: Oh, yeah, I follow what you're saying.

2:16:33 Jacob: I mean, um, yeah, uh the the the injustice that's served out in the courts is far more reaching and harmful to society as a whole.

2:16:43 Jacob: I'm using air quotes.

2:16:44 Jacob: Oh, yeah, it's damaging lives far beyond just the person that winds up in jail.

2:16:50 Timothy: Given a controversial situation, we know that abortion clinics are mass murdering babies, correct?

2:16:59 Jacob: Yeah, they're mass murdering machines, abortion clinics.

2:17:02 Timothy: Somebody goes into an abortion clinic, they protest nonviolently.

2:17:07 Timothy: That would be really a serious crime, be violence upon violence.

2:17:10 Timothy: That's not what we're after.

2:17:11 Timothy: And we don't have time to dive into how this is a little bit different than the gassing of Jews.

2:17:16 Timothy: This is babies being intentionally brought into a place of mass murder by their mothers, which changes the dynamics here of guilt and what's going on.

2:17:26 Timothy: But anyway, somebody's accused of going to an abortion clinic, they block it, they block the door, it's all peacefully done, they're brought in before the courts.

2:17:36 Timothy: Well, the court does not allow them to talk about why they were doing what they were doing.

2:17:42 Timothy: The courts will not allow you to discuss, well, here's the babies being torn apart, here's the torture that's going on, these women are being destroyed, because then what?

2:17:50 Timothy: You actually have an excuse for what you're doing, a very valid excuse.

2:17:55 Timothy: The principle of greater harm would go, okay, protesting and blocking abortion clinic is against the law.

2:18:02 Timothy: I may not even agree that that should be done, but who's doing the greater harm here?

2:18:08 Jacob: The abortion clinic.

2:18:09 Timothy: That's correct.

2:18:10 Timothy: So they go free.

2:18:12 Timothy: The laws then would be cleaned up, society then would be changed, and most importantly, your soul will not be put in jeopardy because you went along with something you should never have gone along with.

2:18:21 Timothy: I'm not gonna go in before a judge or a prosecutor and let them define for me.

2:18:26 Timothy: I'm not leaving my conscience at home, nor my thoughts, nor my logic that I've worked extremely hard and suffered against all the impurity and corruption in my own life, just to give the prosecution, you just need to look at did they block the door or not block the door?

2:18:41 Timothy: Excuse me?

2:18:41 Timothy: Do I look stupid?

2:18:43 Timothy: Is the S on my forehead stand for stupid?

2:18:46 Timothy: Don't answer the question, Jacob.

2:18:48 Timothy: Play the jury duty goads, and then we then we're gonna kind of move into uh Jan's testimony about the dog and pony show.

2:18:58 SPEAKER_05: Jury duty goes.

2:19:02 SPEAKER_05: If it's not illegal, prosecutors need to shut up.

2:19:06 SPEAKER_05: Goad two.

2:19:07 SPEAKER_05: Plea bargains are the final word.

2:19:09 SPEAKER_05: Just say no to extortion.

2:19:11 SPEAKER_05: Yes is yes, no is no.

2:19:15 SPEAKER_05: Anything beyond is from the devil.

2:19:18 SPEAKER_05: Matthew 537.

2:19:20 SPEAKER_05: Goad three.

2:19:21 SPEAKER_05: If liars for the prosecution are not punished, judges are wicked.

2:19:26 SPEAKER_05: If a ruler listens to lies, all his officials become wicked.

2:19:30 SPEAKER_05: Proverbs 2912.

2:19:32 SPEAKER_05: Let us consider jury duty on the Consider Podcast.

2:19:37 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.info where the rubber meets the road.

2:19:50 Timothy: Jacob had interviewed Jan, who went for jury duty, state of Washington.

2:19:57 Timothy: And while that selection process was going on, the King County, Seattle, they're all the same, but openly stated to everybody in the jury pool that if you've been through this jury process, you've been through this quote dog and pony show before.

2:20:16 Timothy: We agreed in the last show.

2:20:18 Timothy: That's probably the only truthful thing that actually got said.

2:20:20 Timothy: Jacob, go ahead and play the bumper, and then we want to move right into continue with Jan's testimony about what she experienced.

2:20:31 SPEAKER_05: October 2006, jury selection, courtroom 4G.

2:20:36 SPEAKER_05: Seattle King County prosecutors.

2:20:38 SPEAKER_05: Prosecutor Paul Sewell.

2:20:41 SPEAKER_05: Been selected for jury duty before?

2:20:43 SPEAKER_05: Then you know it's a dog and pony show.

2:20:46 SPEAKER_05: So justice is driven back, and righteousness stands at a distance.

2:20:52 SPEAKER_05: Truth has stumbled in the streets.

2:20:54 SPEAKER_05: Honesty cannot enter.

2:20:56 SPEAKER_05: Isaiah 59 14.

2:20:59 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.

2:21:02 SPEAKER_05: www.consider.info.

2:21:06 SPEAKER_05: Where the rubber meets the road.

2:21:12 Timothy: We'll take kind of a little breather here, Jacob.

2:21:15 Timothy: Um any comments you want to make before we kind of move forward with Jan's testimony?

2:21:21 Jacob: No.

2:21:21 Timothy: All right.

2:21:22 Timothy: Well then let's just pick up kind of where we left off, and I'll interrupt you as normal.

2:21:26 Timothy: You feel free to interrupt me in the process.

2:21:30 SPEAKER_22: And so we went up to went up to his courtroom, and again, there's fifty of us.

2:21:35 SPEAKER_22: It's just a very small courtroom.

2:21:38 SPEAKER_22: I wondered how are we all going to get in there?

2:21:40 SPEAKER_22: Sure.

2:21:40 SPEAKER_22: So people went in and they all sat down, and of course there wasn't enough room, and then there and then the judge said, okay, well everybody just go up to the jury box that are left that are still looking for seats.

2:21:51 Timothy: So we went up and let me kind of interrupt and ask you a question, Jacob.

2:21:55 Timothy: She makes mention of how small the rooms were and it seemed to This particular courtroom is the only one she said was small.

2:22:03 Timothy: That's totally fine.

2:22:04 Timothy: I'm uh this is not a judgmental question, it's an informational question.

2:22:08 Timothy: Why did it bother so much that the room was small?

2:22:12 Timothy: Clearly it was, and clearly it was having an effect.

2:22:14 Timothy: Because she keeps stating it, or it's you know, is it's an emphasis point.

2:22:19 Timothy: So there's something there that I'm not quite understanding.

2:22:22 Timothy: Do you know?

2:22:23 Jacob: Uh my only guess is I think it's the well, the whole situation.

2:22:26 Jacob: She's never been to jury duty, so this whole thing is new.

2:22:29 Jacob: The experience is probably uncomfortable.

2:22:31 Jacob: She admitted that she actually did not want to be there.

2:22:33 Jacob: I think what made it uncomfortable is the room was so small it y that they some of the people had to go up and sit in the jury box.

2:22:42 Jacob: So I think that's what makes it a little bit extra bit uncomfortable for her.

2:22:45 Jacob: It's not like you go into the courtroom and you sit on all those benches in the back and then you talk.

2:22:49 Jacob: The benches in the back were full, so they were then ushered up into the jury box.

2:22:53 Jacob: So it almost seems like you're already on the jury when you're not on the jury.

2:22:56 Timothy: I think, and you correct me if I'm wrong, I think there's something emotionally going deeper, meaning you already are feeling very uneasy about what's going on.

2:23:04 Timothy: Obviously, she knows from knowledge, you're beginning to feel very claustrophobic and without really being able to make a choice on what you're doing, there's no freedom.

2:23:13 Timothy: I I don't want to go too deep with it, but just a sense of you're not comfortable, there's nowhere to go, you don't know what's going on, it doesn't seem the tension is building on multiple levels, and I think it's coming out toward the size of the room.

2:23:28 Timothy: Uh had they, I don't know, been playing elevator music, somebody walking along a tour group, uh, here's the Bill of Rights, here's this.

2:23:35 Timothy: Oh, yeah, we're a little crowd talking it through.

2:23:37 Timothy: It might have been pleasurable, although I have it's like kind of flying in a plane.

2:23:40 Timothy: I don't know.

2:23:41 Timothy: There's only so much you can do.

2:23:42 Timothy: Yeah.

2:23:42 Timothy: Continue on.

2:23:43 Timothy: I was just curious.

2:23:44 SPEAKER_22: I I was one of the ones that went up to the jury box.

2:23:48 SPEAKER_22: And then at that point, they told us some things um, you know, about the case.

2:23:54 SPEAKER_13: Okay.

2:23:55 SPEAKER_22: And so this particular case was the state of Washington versus Bernard Bellaroche.

2:24:03 SPEAKER_22: Um the crime was there was an assault charge and a drive-by shooting at an ARCO gas station in Federal Way.

2:24:13 SPEAKER_22: So we were introduced to the prosecutor, uh, Paul Sewell, and the defense attorney and the accused.

2:24:23 SPEAKER_22: He was there too.

2:24:25 Jacob: Um is he like in a d oh okay, first backup.

2:24:28 Jacob: The prosecutor was Paul what'd you say?

2:24:31 Jacob: Sewall or Seawall?

2:24:34 SPEAKER_22: Paul, well, Paul Sewell.

2:24:36 SPEAKER_22: I pronounce it Sewell.

2:24:37 Jacob: Oh, Sewell.

2:24:38 SPEAKER_22: Paul S-E-W-E-L-L.

2:24:41 Jacob: Okay, got it.

2:24:42 Jacob: He's the prosecutor.

2:24:42 Jacob: Do you remember who was the who was on the other side?

2:24:45 Jacob: Who was the defense?

2:24:46 Jacob: Do you remember that?

2:24:47 SPEAKER_22: No, I don't.

2:24:49 SPEAKER_22: I don't.

2:24:49 SPEAKER_22: And I think he was a I think he was an assigned by the court.

2:24:53 Jacob: One of the okay, yes.

2:24:54 Timothy: You know, pause it there, Jacob.

2:24:55 Timothy: I I actually that's more significant than uh than it appears.

2:24:59 Timothy: The defense is not what is standing out.

2:25:02 Timothy: Meaning the the state owns the prosecution process, the judge is working for the prosecutors, everything is designed to point to the prosecutor and what they're saying.

2:25:14 Timothy: There's nothing about this that is saying this is an equal battleground and we want to get to the truth.

2:25:21 Timothy: There's none of that.

2:25:22 Timothy: The prosecution, them literally own it.

2:25:25 Timothy: You know, they go so as far they have what's called child's court.

2:25:29 Timothy: And suppose a child says so-and-so did something to me.

2:25:32 Timothy: They actually go to a play court where they go through and get used to the system.

2:25:36 Timothy: There's no way this is kind of a neutral thing.

2:25:38 Timothy: These prosecutors and judges are manipulating these children to feel relaxed about whatever they're going to say.

2:25:44 Timothy: I'm not saying they may have may not have been abused, but the problem is the court system is not punishing those who lie and make false accusations.

2:25:53 Timothy: So the only thing you've got going on is an increase in lying and using all the systems of the state to produce a lie that'll come in to win the court case.

2:26:03 Timothy: Make sense?

2:26:05 Timothy: Significant.

2:26:06 Timothy: I know she's more focused on the responsibility.

2:26:08 Timothy: She knows what these prosecutors and judges are really up to.

2:26:11 Timothy: But it is significant.

2:26:13 Timothy: I yeah, I don't remember at all, because man, that that's not your concern.

2:26:17 Timothy: And the state wants it that way.

2:26:18 Timothy: They want you focused in on them.

2:26:20 Timothy: And they're going to weed out anybody that would object to that so that you will do in the end what it is they want.

2:26:26 Timothy: Do they win every time?

2:26:27 Timothy: No.

2:26:27 Timothy: Does the casino win every time?

2:26:29 Timothy: No.

2:26:29 Timothy: But that's not to deny that we're talking about huge manipulation going on.

2:26:34 Jacob: Public defender, that's what he would be.

2:26:36 Jacob: Okay, and so then the Mr.

2:26:38 Jacob: Mr.

2:26:38 Jacob: Gaines, they don't they always do the Mr.

2:26:40 Jacob: and Mrs.

2:26:40 Jacob: Ray?

2:26:41 Jacob: Mr.

2:26:41 Jacob: Gaines was there.

2:26:42 Jacob: Was he in like an orange jumpsuit, or they had already cut him loose out of jail?

2:26:45 SPEAKER_22: Now wait, wait, no, Mr.

2:26:47 SPEAKER_22: Gaines, that that was the judge.

2:26:50 SPEAKER_22: Oh, that's the judge.

2:26:51 SPEAKER_22: Oh, okay, sorry.

2:26:51 Jacob: I'm getting I'm sorry, I'm getting my name snipped up.

2:26:54 Jacob: Oh, no, Bernard.

2:26:55 SPEAKER_22: Careful there.

2:26:56 Jacob: Bernard, yes.

2:26:57 Jacob: No, no, no.

2:26:57 Jacob: Okay.

2:26:58 Jacob: That's why we're talking about it.

2:26:59 Jacob: Okay, so Judge Gaines.

2:27:01 Jacob: Bernard was the guy they were going after, and is he in an orange jumpsuit or is he, you know what I mean?

2:27:06 Jacob: Or is he free?

2:27:08 SPEAKER_22: Uh no, he's not he's not free, yeah.

2:27:10 Jacob: Okay, okay.

2:27:12 Jacob: And so you're in the jury box, and then so what happens next?

2:27:18 SPEAKER_22: Okay, so we, you know, we're we're introduced to the to these people, like I said, and you know, everyone's very quiet and everything.

2:27:27 SPEAKER_22: Um some of the jurors are relaxed, others are really nervous and tense and stuff.

2:27:32 SPEAKER_22: So the judge asks, uh, does anybody have any hardships?

2:27:38 SPEAKER_22: And so different, you know, people brought up different hardships.

2:27:41 SPEAKER_22: I mean, some were legitimate, you know.

2:27:44 SPEAKER_22: Um like what?

2:27:45 Jacob: What's legitimate?

2:27:46 Jacob: Who who did he let him yeah like one person?

2:27:50 SPEAKER_22: I mean, okay, this person was having surgery, had surgery scheduled, you know, because this case was supposed to last for two and a half weeks.

2:27:58 SPEAKER_22: One person had surgery scheduled, you know.

2:28:02 SPEAKER_22: Um, another person, but but some people had had weird excuses like, uh, I don't like being around murderers and crimes and stuff and fearing about this stuff.

2:28:13 SPEAKER_22: Can I leave, you know?

2:28:15 SPEAKER_11: Yeah, yeah.

2:28:16 SPEAKER_22: And another person had, well, I'm, you know, I have fear of being around people.

2:28:21 SPEAKER_22: Can I leave?

2:28:23 Jacob: Um Did he let them off?

2:28:26 SPEAKER_22: I don't know.

2:28:28 SPEAKER_22: You know, because I I couldn't I couldn't really keep track of everybody, you know.

2:28:32 SPEAKER_22: He didn't he didn't say it on the spot.

2:28:35 Jacob: Oh, I see.

2:28:36 Jacob: They're making notes.

2:28:37 Jacob: Is that what's happening?

2:28:38 Jacob: Yes.

2:28:38 Jacob: They're writing stuff down.

2:28:40 Jacob: Okay.

2:28:40 Jacob: Mm-hmm.

2:28:41 Timothy: All right.

2:28:41 Timothy: They're making notes or plus your questionnaire, plus whether you donated to the uh local children's court fund, plus plus plus.

2:28:50 Timothy: Uh they're dragging this out two th two or three days so people know, weeding out people by that process, because you really gotta want to persevere to keep coming back through this dog and pony show.

2:29:00 SPEAKER_22: Someone else said I've worked in the sheriff's office for decades and I'm a very opinionated person.

2:29:08 SPEAKER_13: Okay.

2:29:09 SPEAKER_22: You know, so people, you know, they all gave their different different excuses and stuff.

2:29:14 SPEAKER_22: And then they some people they did let go then, and then uh other people then at that point after everyone gave their reasons and stuff, the judge just dismissed us for the day.

2:29:27 Jacob: So you weren't trying to get out of it.

2:29:30 SPEAKER_22: I wasn't trying to get out of it, no.

2:29:32 Jacob: And then that was it.

2:29:33 Jacob: They cut you loose.

2:29:35 SPEAKER_22: That was it for that day, and they go, please come back, please come back tomorrow morning.

2:29:40 SPEAKER_22: Okay, so then we all come back the next day, and so it has been nar we have uh our final pool of 50 jurors.

2:29:50 SPEAKER_10: Okay.

2:29:50 SPEAKER_22: And then we all went back to the courtroom.

2:29:52 SPEAKER_22: You know, some of those people got released, you know, some didn't.

2:29:56 SPEAKER_22: I don't know which one.

2:29:58 SPEAKER_22: So anyway, so then the judge he starts telling us, okay, he has four rules for jurors.

2:30:05 SPEAKER_22: And those are they're pretty straightforward, I thought.

2:30:08 SPEAKER_22: But anyway, one was no discussing the case with anyone, including family, friends, or other jurors.

2:30:16 SPEAKER_22: That at deliberation you can talk to the other jurors about the case, but nothing until then.

2:30:21 SPEAKER_22: No looking up information about the case online, no going to any locations mentioned in the case, and no outside research.

2:30:30 SPEAKER_13: Okay.

The Oprah Dr Phil Selection Method

2:30:32 SPEAKER_22: Then he told us that we're going to be using this method of jury selection called the Oprah Dr.

2:30:38 SPEAKER_22: Phil method.

2:30:41 SPEAKER_22: And what that meant is all the jurors are going to participate in a group discussion.

2:30:48 SPEAKER_22: That when a question is asked, well, we're all given these numbers.

2:30:53 SPEAKER_22: They're they're really big numbers.

2:30:55 SPEAKER_22: And uh so when a question is asked, it's our opp it's your opportunity to raise up your number and you can share your viewpoint.

2:31:03 Jacob: What number were you?

2:31:05 SPEAKER_22: I don't remember what my number was.

2:31:06 SPEAKER_22: Oh, you don't remember?

2:31:07 SPEAKER_22: Oh, okay.

2:31:08 SPEAKER_22: Maybe 247 or something.

2:31:09 SPEAKER_22: I don't know.

2:31:10 Jacob: Oh, it was a big it was a big number.

2:31:12 Jacob: They didn't go like a one through fifty.

2:31:14 SPEAKER_22: No, no, no.

2:31:14 SPEAKER_22: Oh weird.

2:31:15 Jacob: It was because they didn't call you by name though, right?

2:31:18 Jacob: They were like juror number two, whatever, blah, blah, blah.

2:31:21 Jacob: Oh, okay.

2:31:22 Jacob: Now what is this?

2:31:23 Jacob: Um, I I literally have never heard, again, I've never been on a jury.

2:31:26 Jacob: The that's what he said.

2:31:28 Jacob: We're using the Oprah Dr.

2:31:30 Jacob: Phil method.

2:31:32 SPEAKER_22: That's what he called it.

2:31:33 SPEAKER_22: Yes.

2:31:33 Jacob: But isn't Oprah and Dr.

2:31:35 Jacob: Phil are like it's TV.

2:31:37 Jacob: It's fake.

2:31:40 Jacob: Why are we using why are we using what did you think of that at the time?

2:31:43 Jacob: Okay, when you first heard it, what did you what were you thinking?

2:31:46 SPEAKER_22: I at the time I thought, oh my goodness, this is like an encounter group that I've been in, you know, in the back in the 60s or something, you know?

2:31:55 Jacob: Sure.

2:31:56 SPEAKER_22: So did you did you Well you're using some kind of encounter group method, you know?

2:32:01 Jacob: Oh, weird.

2:32:02 Jacob: Okay, so you thought it was odd at the time too?

2:32:04 Jacob: Because I think it's odd as we talk about it.

2:32:07 SPEAKER_22: I thought it was very odd too that you would use analogy.

2:32:12 Timothy: It is not just odd, it is full-on corruption.

2:32:16 Timothy: Do we understand, and we've ranted yesterday or the last podcast about that, right?

2:32:20 Timothy: So ranting again almost like okay.

2:32:23 Timothy: Uh you get my point.

2:32:25 Timothy: This isn't this is an encounter group.

2:32:28 Timothy: They they might as well have gone around, you know, what's the what do they call the thing where you stand and then you fall backward and the person catches you?

2:32:35 Timothy: Oh, uh, like a trust.

2:32:37 Timothy: Yeah, trust.

2:32:39 Timothy: I didn't go, I don't come to jury duty to engage in their psychological evaluation.

2:32:44 Timothy: Maybe if they just said, well, you know, we're going to use the Gilligan's Island approach, because Gilligan's Island has a nice episode about justice and the overreaching of the law.

2:32:52 Timothy: Okay, let's watch this Gilligan's Island where Gilligan becomes sheriff, and we'll discuss that.

2:32:58 Timothy: Yeah, I might have gone for that.

2:32:59 Timothy: But all right, let's back up.

2:33:01 Timothy: Ofra?

2:33:02 Timothy: Come on.

2:33:03 Timothy: Liberal as they come, a social influence.

2:33:07 Timothy: On the one hand, you get this, the judge goes.

2:33:09 Timothy: No, we're looking at anything else.

2:33:11 Timothy: No examining anything else, right?

2:33:12 Timothy: Don't even go to the location.

2:33:14 Timothy: Uh, the cops don't even do that anymore.

2:33:16 Timothy: They just make up the accusation, right, Detective McCall?

2:33:18 Timothy: So you don't even go, you can't go to the location, you can't do anything else, right?

2:33:22 Timothy: Right, right, Jacob?

2:33:23 Timothy: Yeah, no outside influences, right?

2:33:25 Timothy: Because outside influences are what, Jacob?

2:33:28 Timothy: They're bad.

2:33:29 Timothy: They're bad, they're evil.

2:33:31 Timothy: What do you say?

2:33:32 Timothy: They're wicked, like you had a corrupt justice, right?

2:33:34 Timothy: No outside influences, right?

2:33:36 Timothy: Uh is Ofra an outside influence?

2:33:41 Timothy: Yes.

2:33:41 Timothy: So on the one hand, Mr.

2:33:43 Timothy: Hypocrite Judge says, no, no, no, don't go out there.

2:33:46 Timothy: But on the oh, now we're gonna pull in these influences, these and uh anybody who watches Ofra or is aware of the news, are they not automatically influenced by outside forces immediately?

2:34:00 Timothy: Yes.

2:34:00 Timothy: Absolutely.

2:34:01 Timothy: Is Ofer pro abortion?

2:34:03 Timothy: Yes.

2:34:03 Timothy: It's Ofer everything that would be against good, moral, decent lives.

2:34:07 Timothy: Absolutely.

2:34:09 Timothy: Easily proved.

2:34:10 Timothy: And you've just brought entertainment into the court system, the philosophy of OFR into the courtroom.

2:34:17 Timothy: You know what I would think of if they said that?

2:34:20 Timothy: If they said think of Oprah.

2:34:21 Timothy: Okay, let me back up.

2:34:22 Timothy: That makes sense, Jacob.

2:34:23 Timothy: You're bringing you you are massively committing a huge fraud here, a swindle.

2:34:28 Timothy: It's like the moving of the nuts around, you know, with the pea or the corn underneath.

2:34:32 Timothy: That's all this judge did.

2:34:33 Timothy: See, don't look under this one, don't look under that one.

2:34:35 Timothy: Yeah.

2:34:35 Timothy: But we're going to look under this one over here.

2:34:37 Timothy: Yes.

2:34:38 Timothy: It is manipul and this is just one manipulation out of so many.

2:34:41 Timothy: But anyway, if they'd have said to me, think of Oprah.

2:34:45 Timothy: You know what?

2:34:45 Timothy: You know what my thought is?

2:34:46 Timothy: I even hate to bring this up.

2:34:48 Timothy: But Oprah loves her bath times.

2:34:51 Timothy: And there was a whole article about she has these huge bathtubs and ones made out of marble, and you know, it's got the beautiful view.

2:35:00 Timothy: She got what millions, if not billions of dollars, right?

2:35:02 Timothy: So bathtime for her is huge.

2:35:05 Timothy: Well, guess what?

2:35:07 Timothy: Visualizing in my mind, Oprah Winfrey in a bathtub is not my idea of a pleasurable experience.

2:35:14 Timothy: Oh, apologies.

2:35:14 Timothy: I'm not Mr.

2:35:15 Timothy: anything noble to look at or whatever, but you get my point.

2:35:18 Timothy: I get your point.

2:35:19 Timothy: Dr.

2:35:19 Timothy: Phil, on the other hand, only he manipulates people for entertainment.

2:35:23 Timothy: Is he correct on a lot of things?

2:35:25 Timothy: Yeah, he's he's factually correct, whatever, but it's all for entertainment purposes.

2:35:30 Timothy: And yes, and it's exaggerating everything else.

2:35:32 Timothy: So you're bringing in his viewpoint, his false.

2:35:35 Timothy: So, you know, I don't know that the judge knows this, but this is really pretty sly because what you have is the emotionalism of Oprah, because that's what she is.

2:35:44 Timothy: It's not about facts.

2:35:45 Timothy: She, I right?

2:35:46 Timothy: Her talk shows aren't really about, well, let's dive into this issue and look at other sides, and here's the facts.

2:35:51 Timothy: Right.

2:35:51 Timothy: It's all an emotional thing.

2:35:53 Timothy: Correct.

2:35:53 Timothy: The flowers are good today.

2:35:54 Timothy: This is a nice bathtub.

2:35:56 Timothy: I'm a millionaire.

2:35:57 Timothy: I bring you entertainment.

2:35:58 Timothy: I mean, I know they're mixing in social costs, but it's all in the guys really of feelings, right?

2:36:02 Timothy: Correct.

2:36:03 Timothy: On the other hand, you have Dr.

2:36:04 Timothy: Phil, who's at least thought of as factual psychological analysis.

2:36:10 Timothy: You're bringing in two different viewpoints, and this will give the jury pool that is already susceptible to being manipulated both the feelings, the self-righteous feelings of Ofra and the false logic of Dr.

2:36:24 Timothy: Phil brought into a courtroom.

2:36:26 Timothy: It it really is a very sinister type uh mixing.

2:36:29 Timothy: They couldn't go, we're gonna do a Freudian uh type experiment here in order to determine whether you know what I'm saying?

2:36:35 Timothy: So that the the the they don't even realize these prosecutors, these j maybe they do.

2:36:40 Timothy: I don't know how far the corruption goes.

2:36:43 Timothy: But by that, by the time you participated in this group encounter, it's not just a group encounter or uncomfortable.

2:36:51 Timothy: It is deep-seated psychologically psychological manipulation.

2:36:55 Timothy: Do I need to recap that again?

2:36:57 Timothy: No, it makes sense.

2:36:59 Timothy: That's enough then for the case to be thrown out.

2:37:02 Timothy: Never never should happen.

2:37:04 Timothy: But this whole thing is corrupt from beginning to end.

2:37:07 Timothy: Uh anything else on that, Jake?

2:37:10 Timothy: No.

2:37:12 Timothy: Once again, I am not about to expose my life to a group of people I do not even know.

2:37:20 Timothy: And in front of police or judges or prosecutors that are can turn with a vengeance whether you they have evidence or not, and just tear your life, tear all the meat off of your life, even if you're found innocent, even if you go to trial and you're found not guilty.

2:37:40 Timothy: You know, they they've torn you apart.

2:37:42 Timothy: Everything is destroyed by them.

2:37:44 Timothy: These are ruthless people.

2:37:45 Timothy: And and they're walking in a jury pool.

2:37:49 Timothy: Please understand, your best prosecutors are your good old boys.

2:37:53 Timothy: They come across all nice.

2:37:54 Timothy: The best judge that in terms of if you want information, this is just like well known, you play Mr.

2:37:59 Timothy: Nice Guy.

2:38:00 Timothy: This stuff is massively corrupting, and you're placing yourself at a huge disadvantage by letting judges and other people know.

2:38:07 Timothy: Not to mention, now you have group think going on because the people they're going to choose, they're only going to choose those that are highly likely to go along with the group.

2:38:17 Timothy: And to go along with the group of the state.

2:38:19 Timothy: So you they all these people that are finally chosen out of this Ofra, Dr.

2:38:23 Timothy: Phil, all the other manipulations give to the child court thing and all the different things that they've done, they're highly conducive just to do exactly what the state wants to do without a dissenting voice or discussion or anything else.

2:38:38 Timothy: Let me put it more in perspective this way.

2:38:42 Timothy: If you serve on a jury pool, you at least need one person going back into the jury room asking critical questions, thinking questions.

2:38:52 Timothy: They they don't want the the state doesn't want you to do that.

2:38:54 Timothy: For example, Jacob, when you and I discuss, do I not tell you what I'm about to tell you I don't fully believe.

2:39:01 Timothy: So we we go out uh out of our box, we go out, no, I wouldn't say we go to the extreme, but we'll go into discussions, and I'm looking for loopholes or weaknesses in what I currently believe.

2:39:13 Timothy: Correct.

2:39:14 Jacob: Analytical.

2:39:15 Timothy: Analytical.

2:39:15 Timothy: That's how you come to decisions.

2:39:17 Timothy: So you're fresh in a jury pool, the the prosecution gets the last word, of course.

2:39:22 Timothy: The the defense doesn't, of course not.

2:39:24 Timothy: The defense never gets the last word.

2:39:26 Timothy: They prosecuted, so the emotions are hype.

2:39:28 Timothy: They figured you out.

2:39:29 Timothy: They've gone through this whole process, they're giving you the summation, they're going through all this thing.

2:39:34 Timothy: And the in the trial that we went on, the prosecutors totally changed the testimony of the person that made the accusation.

2:39:39 Timothy: There's no rebuttal because they are the last ones that get to speak.

2:39:43 Timothy: So among the many, many, many, many lies the the jury pool went back in with the prosecution, King County prosecutors finished up with this colossal lie that easily could have reshaped the lie that was already there.

2:39:54 Timothy: You get my point.

2:40:04 Timothy: Let's start with that assumption.

2:40:06 Timothy: Let's go back and look at all the evidence and make sure that we're actually looking at real evidence here.

2:40:13 Timothy: Let's pretend that person's lying.

2:40:15 Timothy: Let's pretend the state's got it wrong.

2:40:17 Timothy: Let's pretend that the the uh person that testified or didn't testify is innocent, you know, innocent to proven guilty concept.

2:40:24 Timothy: When you go through all of that process, then you come to the conclusion, well, no, they're guilty because everything else has been shot down.

2:40:32 Timothy: Or you go, you know what, there's too much reasonable doubt in this situation, so they're not guilty.

2:40:38 Timothy: Make sense?

2:40:38 Timothy: Makes sense.

2:40:40 Timothy: I'm the exact kind of person, and anybody who gets close to what I'm saying, they you're not even gonna get close.

2:40:46 Timothy: Like I said, even if I was Jesus said to be as shrewd as a snake and innocent as a dove, let's say I could just kind of do that.

2:40:53 Timothy: We got to the Oprah, it would take the power of God for my face not to portray like you're doing what and we're going where.

2:41:00 Timothy: Correct.

2:41:00 Timothy: So uh I'm not saying it couldn't happen and it's worth a try.

2:41:05 Timothy: I'm not telling you stay home from jury duty, but if you think you've got the grace of God, you better make sure you have the grace of God.

2:41:11 Timothy: Go get into the jury pool and start bringing justice back into the courtroom.

2:41:16 Timothy: Any comments or anything on that, Jacob?

2:41:18 Timothy: No.

2:41:19 Timothy: All right, let's keep pressing on.

2:41:20 SPEAKER_22: I thought it was very odd to you that you would use like TV personalities in a courtroom.

2:41:26 SPEAKER_22: And that's the method that we're using.

2:41:28 Jacob: Yeah, that's our method.

2:41:30 Jacob: Okay, so they so we're doing the Oprah Dr.

2:41:33 Jacob: Phil method.

2:41:34 Jacob: There was no there was no music.

2:41:35 Jacob: This is not a production, right?

2:41:38 unknown: Right.

2:41:39 Jacob: Okay, so then so what happens?

2:41:42 SPEAKER_22: Okay, well, uh, a couple other things I want to say about the about that method.

2:41:46 SPEAKER_22: And he said, if you don't participate in the discussion, then you will be singled out for questioning.

Quiet Jurors Get Singled Out

2:41:53 Timothy: Well, okay.

2:41:54 Timothy: I I what?

2:41:55 Timothy: Uh run that by me again, Jackie.

2:41:57 Timothy: What did she just say?

2:41:59 Jacob: If you don't participate, they're gonna ask you questions.

2:42:02 Timothy: Okay, pretty much take back a good third, like maybe the judge is doing something decent.

2:42:06 Timothy: They know what they're doing.

2:42:08 Timothy: You're threatening the prosecutor and the judge to single you out and go for you.

2:42:14 Timothy: You don't have okay.

2:42:15 Timothy: Yeah, that's it.

2:42:16 Timothy: Please nobody should be doubting that juries are being manipulated to the max.

2:42:19 Timothy: This is coming in with the white coat thing.

2:42:21 Timothy: This is coming in with the letter of the law.

2:42:23 Timothy: This is like you're going to get my full attention.

2:42:26 Timothy: How many people do you know, Jacob, that can turn and look at a judge or a prosecutor in the face and tell them the truth without fear?

2:42:34 Jacob: Oh, nobody you're afraid.

2:42:36 Jacob: Of course you're gonna you're gonna even if you do tell the truth, there's yeah, I mean that's yeah, the whole the whole I mean, he's sitting there on the bench with the power.

2:42:43 Jacob: He could the judge can hold you in contempt of court, you know.

2:42:47 Jacob: Yeah, of course you're gonna be fearful.

2:42:52 Timothy: Man, how many court cases should just be declared illegal and those people go forward?

2:42:56 Jacob: Well, see, because I think that they they know that, and then this is all part of their jury selection process because then when you're called upon, they know the person's nervous.

2:43:05 Jacob: So then, I mean again, unless you have the grace of God to sneak onto that jury, you're gonna you're gonna answer honestly when they call on you and you're on the spot, right?

2:43:15 Jacob: You're gonna babble out something, and then that gives them the that's the tell, right?

2:43:18 Jacob: That's the oh, well then we don't like this guy.

2:43:20 Jacob: We'll be sure and get rid of this guy because you will be called upon.

2:43:24 Timothy: We will single you out.

2:43:26 Jacob: Yeah, those are that's a threat.

2:43:28 Jacob: Well, but they because they want to know.

2:43:30 Jacob: Yeah, I mean they they they want to manipulate, they want to decide who's in there, who's not on there, and if you're too quiet, we're gonna find out.

2:43:38 Timothy: Well, it was worse than that.

2:43:39 Timothy: Not too quiet.

2:43:40 Timothy: If you just kind of refuse I hear you.

2:43:42 Timothy: We're saying the same thing.

2:43:43 Jacob: If you're not gonna raise your paddle, you have a number, that's what she's describing.

2:43:48 Jacob: If you if then we're gonna find out because they wanna know, because that they're there to control it.

2:43:56 Timothy: Let me catch my breath on this one.

2:43:59 Jacob: Well, so are okay, so you're saying I mean, again, I I a hundred percent agree with you that the the corruption is ridiculously deep.

2:44:07 Jacob: I mean, if somebody is I understand that they will want to ask somebody questions who who hasn't asked any questions.

2:44:14 Jacob: Don't you want to find out what's in the now I agree I agree it's all corrupt what they're doing, but they do want to find out who's here.

2:44:24 Timothy: No, you're you're you're giving them way too much credit.

2:44:26 Jacob: So the person should allow to be completely silent.

2:44:29 Timothy: Well, sure.

2:44:29 Timothy: Okay, and then that is my response.

2:44:32 Timothy: Okay.

2:44:32 Timothy: My my he says we're gonna do this and this.

2:44:35 Timothy: You're supposed to be who you are in this encounter group, right?

2:44:39 Timothy: Yeah.

2:44:39 Timothy: Well, who I am is I don't participate in those things.

2:44:42 Timothy: Who I am is I don't explain why I don't participate in these things unless I want to.

2:44:46 Timothy: And I'm certainly not afraid of the judge in any way.

2:44:49 Timothy: I shouldn't have to explain myself what he No, no, this is very, very deep, dark, twisted psychology.

2:44:58 Timothy: He can say it with a smile.

2:45:00 Timothy: He can he can give you the white wars, like, well, we just want to know why and what for and all that kind of stuff.

2:45:05 Timothy: Look, it it doesn't matter.

2:45:06 Timothy: Anyone who doesn't step up of the plate to participate in this has already told the state they don't want to play the game.

2:45:12 Timothy: Correct.

2:45:14 Jacob: They don't want to be there, even if they don't agree with what's being said.

2:45:16 Jacob: Someone who's silent doesn't want to be there.

2:45:18 Timothy: Well, correct.

2:45:18 Timothy: So my point is he didn't have to say we will single you out because you got your answer.

2:45:23 Timothy: If you say those who don't participate, that is an answer.

2:45:27 Jacob: That isn't correct.

2:45:28 Jacob: And so all they have to do is ignore you.

2:45:30 Jacob: So then, well, so so are you saying that then if the person doesn't say anything, then that which I agree that is the answer.

2:45:35 Jacob: That is the answer.

2:45:36 Jacob: The prosecutor could decide to just do away with them.

2:45:40 Timothy: Correct.

2:45:40 Timothy: There's no need to go to the threat level.

2:45:42 Jacob: Well, oh, well, I'm we'll single you out.

2:45:45 Jacob: You see what I'm saying?

2:45:46 Jacob: They're they're making you participate.

2:45:48 Jacob: Well, I'm just going on the flip side.

2:45:49 Jacob: See, but because it's it's also darker on the sense that they still don't know that maybe that person is just in shell shock for being there for the first time.

2:45:58 Jacob: The person is quiet, so maybe they really do, you know what I mean?

2:46:01 Jacob: Maybe they really do love this Oprah Wimpy thing.

2:46:04 Jacob: Like they agree, you know what I mean?

2:46:05 Jacob: They could still be a deep-seated Democrat and still be quiet, and they would still want them.

2:46:11 Timothy: Yeah, but there's no need to take the state and the energy to try and figure that out.

2:46:14 Timothy: It let's just say they're shy.

2:46:16 Timothy: Or let's just say they're sure.

2:46:17 Jacob: Yeah, oh yeah.

2:46:17 Jacob: You have people super introverted.

2:46:19 Timothy: Well, sure.

2:46:19 Timothy: Or like democratic people.

2:46:21 Timothy: I just don't want to do that.

2:46:22 Timothy: Well, technically, by not responding, you're saying I I'm not qualified to be on the jury pool.

2:46:29 Timothy: Because you don't want a bunch of milli-mouth people who are too shy to respond in the jury pool.

2:46:35 Timothy: You need people that are supposedly thinking and going at it.

2:46:39 Timothy: In other words, all I'm saying again and again is if a person doesn't answer or doesn't participate, that is an answer.

2:46:46 Timothy: Correct.

2:46:46 Timothy: Oh no, I agree with that.

2:46:47 Timothy: I get what you're saying.

2:46:48 Timothy: So for the judge or and really when you say judge, you mean prosecutor and judge to say what they say, that is a huge threat.

2:46:55 Timothy: You've not only opened yourself up to who your friends are or what you do, or saying something you don't want to say, or going the line, to a person that will immediately go, we will single you out.

2:47:07 Timothy: There's no other way around that.

2:47:08 Timothy: Am I missing something there?

2:47:10 Timothy: No.

2:47:13 Timothy: Wow.

2:47:14 Timothy: Amazing.

2:47:18 Timothy: Jan actually did really well.

2:47:19 Timothy: She eventually speaks up, which only proves to me at this point she really had a good decent courage.

2:47:24 Timothy: Because he's already threatened.

2:47:26 Timothy: She's just not really picking up on it, it's not really influencing her like that.

2:47:29 Timothy: And part of the reason for that is because what we went through was horrendous, false, wrong, and criminal.

2:47:35 Timothy: It's really hard to keep silent.

2:47:36 Timothy: You'd you'd be in massive sin to be silent.

2:47:39 Timothy: So it just kind of bursts out with her.

2:47:41 Timothy: But at this point, this is like, man.

2:47:45 Timothy: And you combine this with kids' court, dogs in court, the manipulation and the power and the money of the prosecutor's office, the authority figure, the judge.

2:47:54 Timothy: You start adding all this up the questionnaire, the donating, the not donating, the uh cramped rooms, explaining nothing, keeping people confused, bringing them in.

2:48:03 Timothy: They're so befuddled by the time they actually get on the jury pool, they're they're even susceptible just because emotionally they've been racked over the coal, so to speak, and will just pretty much do what the state wants them to accept.

2:48:14 Timothy: Make sense?

2:48:15 Timothy: Yep.

2:48:16 Timothy: All right.

2:48:16 Timothy: Anything else before we press on?

2:48:18 Timothy: Nope.

2:48:19 Timothy: All right.

2:48:20 Timothy: You know, I want to say, look, if you're going to jury, this is not out of the norm.

2:48:23 Timothy: This is like everywhere.

2:48:25 Timothy: You just haven't experienced it.

2:48:26 Timothy: And no, watch out for these well, press on, Jacob.

2:48:30 Jacob: Oh, so if you never raise your card, they're gonna come ask you questions.

2:48:35 SPEAKER_22: Yes, they're gonna come ask you questions.

2:48:37 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, and then he just goes, okay.

2:48:38 SPEAKER_22: And the whole purpose of this is for the judge, the prosecutor, and the defense attorney to determine if the if uh each juror would be right for this case.

2:48:50 Timothy: As a side note, they always throw in for the jurors.

2:48:53 Timothy: I remember the dogs in court, they sell a lie to the Supreme Court.

2:48:58 Timothy: You know what I'm talking about?

2:48:59 Timothy: They they bring in uh someone who's testifying can have a comfort dog sitting there on their lap while they and as if oh no, that won't affect the jury.

2:49:08 Timothy: No, no, it only affects the person testifying, therefore it has an effect.

2:49:11 Timothy: And whoever can walk by a cute little puppy or a dog and your kid goes, oh, I want the puppy, and not at least be moved to get the dog, you got to come up with excuses, right?

2:49:20 Timothy: Anyway, they have the Supreme Court in their colossal corruption say, Oh, yeah, you can bring dogs into court.

2:49:26 Timothy: Well, I dialogued with the dogs people in court, and they always throw out, well, the defense can request the dog and so on and so forth.

2:49:33 Timothy: Well, I kept hammering the questions, and eventually the woman that is in charge just kind of blew up.

2:49:39 Timothy: And what the what I got back was the truth of where her heart was.

2:49:42 Timothy: She believes that everybody that's accused that requires a dog in court is guilty.

2:49:48 Timothy: So the the whole facade is a lie about, well, the defense can do this.

2:49:52 Timothy: Look, the defense doesn't have the money, it doesn't have the authority, it doesn't even have the illusion of authority toward the uh jury pool.

2:50:00 Timothy: Think about that.

2:50:00 Timothy: You've got that that judge saying, Well, we'll single you out.

2:50:04 Timothy: You've got the prosecutor saying this is a dog and pony show, for which is true.

2:50:07 Timothy: They're coming across and they are in total control.

2:50:10 Timothy: You're in the courthouse, all those things.

2:50:11 Timothy: There's d there's nothing but diminishing the defense.

2:50:15 Timothy: So, yeah, they can say all day long, well, the defense is there to choose, and so it's very minimal the power that the defense has.

2:50:22 Timothy: It's it's almost uh not even worth mentioning.

2:50:25 Timothy: Yeah.

2:50:27 Jacob: Wait, what was that list again?

2:50:28 SPEAKER_22: Well, wait, who gets the determin?

2:50:30 SPEAKER_22: Who's determining?

2:50:32 SPEAKER_22: Now, the judge, the prosecutor, and the defense attorney.

2:50:37 Jacob: Okay.

2:50:38 Jacob: They all get they all get a veto.

2:50:40 Jacob: Is that what is that what that meant?

2:50:41 Jacob: They could all right.

2:50:44 Timothy: Okay, let me pause there because we're kind of running on some time, Jacob.

2:50:48 Timothy: Do we understand this all looks equal at this point, right?

2:50:51 Timothy: They each get so many choices.

2:50:53 Timothy: Yeah.

2:50:54 Timothy: Right?

2:50:54 Timothy: It's a delusion because have they not, from the time you enter before you even show up at that courthouse, gone through the weeding process to keep away people they don't want?

2:51:05 Jacob: Oh yeah.

2:51:06 Jacob: I mean, there the the favor is heavily slated towards the state.

2:51:11 Jacob: Which is includes away.

2:51:13 Jacob: You know, the state or whether it's the county, you know, the county employs both the judge and the prosecutor.

2:51:19 Jacob: So it's already out of the the supposed three three individuals here, right?

2:51:23 Jacob: Or that are v-twain people.

2:51:24 Jacob: Well, they already have the upper hand.

2:51:25 Jacob: They work for the same people.

2:51:26 Timothy: Yeah, and the people that get paid for the same accounts.

2:51:29 Timothy: And the defense has to choose from the worst of the crop the state allowed in.

2:51:34 Jacob: They're just they're just trying to do away with the yeah, they're trying to obviously, you know, win a case for their client, but they get the they get the I don't know, second pickings or you know what I mean, yeah.

2:51:42 Timothy: Yeah.

2:51:43 Timothy: And I'm not even trying this would never work.

2:51:45 Timothy: But okay, let's let's be fair.

2:51:46 Timothy: There should be off site, the defense ought to be able to go find six jurors that they choose in their own setting to be on and then we'll let the state choose their six.

2:51:56 Timothy: Exactly.

2:51:56 Timothy: That's at least be a little more fair.

2:51:58 Jacob: It would be more fair if you got you get to you get to bring in your six, and we get to bring in our six, and who is who's gonna and then they can hash it out.

2:52:05 Timothy: Correct.

2:52:05 Timothy: Yeah.

2:52:06 Jacob: That would at least be fair.

2:52:07 Jacob: That would be fair.

2:52:08 Timothy: That sounds like so reasonable.

2:52:09 Jacob: Like a football team, right?

2:52:10 Jacob: Like you get to practice, you're on this team, we each have our teams, and then we come together.

2:52:14 Jacob: But yeah, no, it's not like that at all.

2:52:16 Timothy: And I know there'd be so many objections like, well, the the defense then is essentially paying for, they could pay for what you don't think the state is giving people benefits?

2:52:24 Timothy: Correct.

2:52:25 Timothy: They're not going down the list going, how many benefits do you receive from the state?

2:52:28 Timothy: Sure.

2:52:29 Timothy: You know, and we're gonna pay you this.

2:52:30 Timothy: We want your money.

2:52:31 Timothy: Ah, we're rehashing again.

2:52:33 Timothy: We're gonna need to pause here because I think we've gone a little bit long.

2:52:36 Timothy: So, Jacob, take us out of here.

2:52:39 SPEAKER_20: This has been the Consider Podcast with your hosts, Timothy and Jacob, where the whole gospel message has been used to examine today's wisdom, folly, and madness.

2:52:49 SPEAKER_20: For more information, drop by www.consider.info.

2:52:54 SPEAKER_20: The consider podcast, examining today's wisdom, folly, and madness with the whole gospel.

America’s Decline And A Dead Church

2:53:11 Timothy: We're trying to plow through Jans, dog and pony, testimony concerning jury duty, and we'll get there in a moment, but there's a lot to consider today.

2:53:22 SPEAKER_20: Welcome to the Consider Podcast, where the whole gospel message is used to examine today's wisdom, folly, and madness.

2:53:30 SPEAKER_20: Acts 5.20.

2:53:32 SPEAKER_20: Go stand and speak to the people in the temple the whole message of this life.

2:53:37 SPEAKER_20: Join the hosts Timothy and Jacob as they pick up their cross to follow Jesus, as we pray that God enlightens the mind, according to verse 25 of Ecclesiastes chapter 7.

2:53:48 SPEAKER_20: So, I turned my mind to understand, to investigate, and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things, and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly.

2:54:00 SPEAKER_20: Ecclesiastes 725.

2:54:02 SPEAKER_20: The Consider Podcast, examining today's wisdom, folly, and madness with the whole gospel.

2:54:09 SPEAKER_20: www.consider.info.

2:54:14 Timothy: Jacob's here with me today at the international or worldwide international headquarters for the Consider Podcast.

2:54:22 Jacob: How's it going, Jacob?

2:54:24 Jacob: All right.

2:54:25 Jacob: I didn't know we had international headquarters.

2:54:29 Timothy: I didn't want to boast too much, but it's actually universal because the waves all go out into space.

2:54:35 Timothy: And so, you know, a couple billion years from now, somebody's going to pick up on this podcast.

2:54:39 Timothy: Or maybe there's an alien or two listening because they may be gospel too, because they're part of a fallen universe.

2:54:46 Jacob: That's true.

2:54:47 Timothy: Anyway, a lot going on.

2:54:48 Timothy: I think we'll eventually get to Jan's testimony, but yeah, I'm not in a rush at this point.

2:54:54 Timothy: It's not like justice is going to break out and uh we're going to have all of it solved.

2:54:59 Timothy: It's just not going to happen.

2:55:01 Timothy: There's a couple videos going on right now that are kind of going viral.

2:55:06 Timothy: That uh obviously the Christian church, and uh and I don't want to keep repeating, I'm using that in quotes, but the Christian church is all excited about it.

2:55:17 Timothy: Go ahead and play this particular one because it lists 25 ways that America is being destroyed.

2:55:23 Timothy: And actually, the video is well done, and the points are all valid, except there should be 26.

2:55:29 Timothy: And it should have been the first one and the last one, which, yeah, technically that have been what 27.

2:55:34 Timothy: But go ahead and play that, Jacob, because we're gonna discover as if we didn't know that America is in judgment or decline.

2:55:45 SPEAKER_23: A warning to America.

2:55:46 SPEAKER_23: 25 ways the U.S.

2:55:48 SPEAKER_23: is being destroyed in under two minutes.

2:55:52 SPEAKER_23: One, open borders and illegal immigration, two, rampant crime in unsafe cities, three, mass addiction and fentanyl.

2:56:00 SPEAKER_23: 4.

2:56:01 SPEAKER_23: Election insecurity and interference.

2:56:04 SPEAKER_23: 5.

2:56:04 SPEAKER_23: The educational indoctrination of children.

2:56:07 SPEAKER_23: 6.

2:56:08 SPEAKER_23: The asymmetrical weaponization of justice.

2:56:11 SPEAKER_23: 7.

2:56:12 SPEAKER_23: The destruction of private property rights.

2:56:15 SPEAKER_23: 8.

2:56:15 SPEAKER_23: Inflation and debt.

2:56:17 SPEAKER_23: 9.

2:56:18 SPEAKER_23: The global depopulation agenda.

2:56:20 SPEAKER_23: 10.

2:56:21 SPEAKER_23: Record low fertility and plummeting birth rates.

2:56:24 SPEAKER_23: 11.

2:56:25 SPEAKER_23: Unaccountable federal bureaucracies.

2:56:27 SPEAKER_23: 12.

2:56:28 SPEAKER_23: Toxic food supply.

2:56:30 SPEAKER_23: 13.

2:56:31 SPEAKER_23: Vaccine and pandemic disinformation.

2:56:34 SPEAKER_23: 14.

2:56:34 SPEAKER_23: The trans contagion and sterilization of children.

2:56:38 SPEAKER_23: 15.

2:56:40 SPEAKER_23: Over-prescription of pharmaceuticals.

2:56:42 SPEAKER_23: 16.

2:56:43 SPEAKER_23: Destruction of the nuclear family and parental rights.

2:56:46 SPEAKER_23: 17.

2:56:47 SPEAKER_23: DEI and the new racism.

2:56:49 SPEAKER_23: 18.

2:56:50 SPEAKER_23: Moral and societal decay.

2:56:52 SPEAKER_23: 19.

2:56:53 SPEAKER_23: The financing of endless foreign wars.

2:56:55 SPEAKER_23: 20.

2:56:56 SPEAKER_23: The sprawling surveillance state.

2:56:58 SPEAKER_23: 21.

2:56:59 SPEAKER_23: The centralization and consolidation of government power.

2:57:02 SPEAKER_23: 22.

2:57:03 SPEAKER_23: The destruction of trust in institutions.

2:57:06 SPEAKER_23: 23.

2:57:07 SPEAKER_23: The censorship industrial complex.

2:57:10 SPEAKER_23: 24.

2:57:11 SPEAKER_23: State media propaganda.

2:57:13 SPEAKER_23: 25.

2:57:13 Timothy: The smearing of those who challenge it's actually a twenty-five and a half.

2:57:22 Timothy: And that would be Attention Deficit Syndrome, where we can only go two minutes to figure out all that's wrong.

2:57:29 Timothy: Even I was going, okay, let's press on.

2:57:31 Timothy: But uh I don't know that I have that particular problem.

2:57:34 Timothy: Alright.

2:57:35 Timothy: Any thoughts real fast check out before we go to Revelation chapter three, verse one?

2:57:41 Timothy: No, other than yeah, his points are valid.

2:57:44 Timothy: They're all valid.

2:57:45 Timothy: Uh kind of worthless points, is my point.

2:57:47 Timothy: Sure.

2:57:48 Timothy: It's like this is so self-evident.

2:57:51 Timothy: We keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

2:57:55 Timothy: It's always a lot of talk.

2:57:58 Timothy: No action.

2:57:59 Timothy: There's not twenty-six things on what you can do, but you know, twenty-five things of what the problem is.

2:58:07 Timothy: The twenty-sixth thing should be the dead Christian church.

2:58:13 Timothy: It's a dead.

2:58:14 Timothy: The video, one video we're gonna look at today.

2:58:16 Timothy: Just it just pre it's just literally dead.

2:58:19 Timothy: There is so much hostility toward the word of God that it literally is talking like a corpse.

2:58:24 Timothy: They're they're not even responding back.

2:58:26 Timothy: There's no debate, no discussion, no love for the word of God.

2:58:29 Timothy: Oh, you know, they sing about it and talk about it and diagram it and take it all together, but I'm talking about the living word of God by the crucified life that crucifies us unto action and action by the new life, the new self.

2:58:43 Timothy: Revelation 3 1.

2:58:44 Timothy: Jacob, go ahead and read that.

2:58:47 Jacob: Do the angel of the church in Sardis write, these are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.

2:58:55 Jacob: I know your deeds.

2:58:56 Jacob: You have a reputation of being alive, but you were dead.

2:59:01 Jacob: Sums it up, doesn't it, Jacob?

2:59:03 Jacob: Yes, it does.

2:59:04 Timothy: I don't I don't think it takes some confirmation, you know, God sending lightning bolts, although we just had the eclipse.

2:59:11 Timothy: Did you survive the eclipse?

2:59:13 Jacob: I did survive the eclipse, that is right.

2:59:16 Jacob: Did you survive?

2:59:17 Jacob: We both survived, I guess.

2:59:19 Jacob: I hid out.

2:59:20 Timothy: Am I really here?

2:59:21 Timothy: I don't know.

2:59:22 Timothy: I thought about hiding in the attic, and then I thought underneath.

2:59:24 Timothy: I didn't know where to go because it was, you know, the apocalypse was about to happen.

2:59:29 Timothy: Terrible things are happening, and of course, everybody missed the point exactly what was going on, but I'm not going to talk about that today.

2:59:35 Timothy: I know your deeds, Jesus says.

2:59:37 Timothy: You have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

2:59:43 Timothy: The Christian church is dead.

2:59:45 Timothy: Even those that talk about the message of the cross, even those who think they have the correct understanding of Luke 14, 25, so on and so forth, it's all a bunch of talk.

2:59:54 Timothy: Push, come to shove.

2:59:55 Timothy: There's nothing happening.

2:59:56 Timothy: There's no power in what they're doing.

2:59:58 Timothy: They're safe in the pew, and even those that sit there and hear the tough messages are coming each Sunday to hear the tough message.

3:00:05 Timothy: But living the tough Christian life, walking the narrow road, actually giving up self and purifying oneself, it ain't happening, is it?

3:00:15 Timothy: No.

3:00:16 Timothy: Alright, play this next little bumper to remind us of that fact, and then we're gonna move into some nasty stuff.

3:00:27 SPEAKER_05: America's foundations are shaking.

3:00:31 SPEAKER_05: America is passing into history at an alarming rate.

3:00:35 SPEAKER_05: The flag of old glory, the stars and stripes are limping in the wind.

3:00:43 SPEAKER_05: Who's to blame?

3:00:47 SPEAKER_05: Republicans, Democrats, Communists, or big business?

3:00:52 SPEAKER_05: Perhaps just perhaps those who shout out the most, America is breaking apart, are the first cause.

3:01:03 SPEAKER_05: Perhaps a holy God is starting to judge the American Christian Church.

3:01:08 SPEAKER_05: 1 Peter 4.17.

3:01:10 SPEAKER_05: It is time for judgment to begin with the family of God.

3:01:14 SPEAKER_05: And if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

3:01:23 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.info.

3:01:30 SPEAKER_06: Where the rubber meets the road.

3:01:36 Timothy: You notice it Peter there talks about those who do not obey the gospel.

3:01:42 Timothy: Claiming to be a Christian is measured by obedience to the word of God.

3:01:48 Timothy: Where again is the love for the word of the Lord and that being the measure of everything?

3:01:53 Timothy: I don't mean the cherry picking, or, you know, I like this one over here, or I like this little principle, or when I'm down, I go to these scriptures, or I don't know when I'm up, I go to these scriptures.

3:02:04 Timothy: You know what I'm saying?

3:02:04 Timothy: Yeah, we we kind of use the Bible as what, a self-help, uh improve self, you know, focus in on self if I'm feeling down, then then I go claim the Psalms, or I go over here and do that.

3:02:16 Timothy: Yeah.

3:02:16 Timothy: I I know you'd amend that.

3:02:18 Timothy: We that's kind of what we're looking at.

3:02:20 Timothy: Let me put this in a more positive light.

3:02:23 Timothy: If we are not a part of the destruction of America or the judgment of the church, or if we're not a part of the dead church in America, then the same hunger and thirst for righteousness and obedience that you hear on the Consider podcast would be in your own life and in your own church and in your own neighborhood.

3:02:41 Timothy: It it's really that kind of simple, but instead, things are so far gone.

3:02:47 Timothy: So far gone.

3:02:48 Timothy: You'd actually discovered and watched this clip.

3:02:50 Timothy: I'd seen the headline, but don't have time for all, you know, I I gotta think about I don't have time to look at all the headlines, and so you and I bump into a lot of different things, right?

3:02:58 Timothy: Mm-hmm.

3:02:58 Timothy: Yeah.

3:02:58 Timothy: And I hate I hate to kind of throw this out because somebody might pick it up.

3:03:01 Timothy: Well, we're all, you know, you've got these group discussions.

3:03:04 Timothy: Usually it's about uh body counts and male and female and moral and all that stuff.

3:03:10 Timothy: And then, you know, they go around the room and everybody talks and gives their little opinion.

3:03:14 Timothy: When's the last time you saw?

3:03:15 Timothy: Now I'm talking not a bunch of Pharisees and Sadducees, but disciples of Jesus that know how to pick up their cross and follow Jesus Christ, who really are living a life of obedience and have been taught for a couple decades on following Jesus and what that means to follow the living God and all of that involved.

3:03:34 Timothy: Where's the round table with that?

3:03:35 Timothy: Because literally, I you know, we could have what five people that were like that, each going out, examining and see what's going on, seeing what the destruction is or how compromising the church is.

3:03:47 Timothy: Then we talk about well, what can we do, how we can obey.

3:03:50 Timothy: And that that's part of the reason we get persecuted because we talk about what you can do, not just whine and complain.

3:03:56 Timothy: This isn't 25 lists of how bad and dead the church is.

3:03:59 Timothy: Uh, you know, it it's it's 5,000 things you can do to be obedient.

3:04:05 Timothy: Jacob, kind of introduce what you've got here and let's begin to discuss this a little bit.

3:04:11 Jacob: Well, uh, we always use the phrase uh we don't quite know how bad it is out there.

3:04:17 Jacob: And this is an example of I was just I had seen it and I'd clicked on the video and I watched a couple other videos, but I mean the bottom line you have uh we you'll see in the video it's it's obvious behavior at a men's conference that most people agree is bad.

3:04:33 Jacob: So then there's the another preacher who I'm not super familiar with, but he's a p successful guy preacher, right?

3:04:40 Jacob: Ministry, and he he even barely starts to call it out and then the other guy kicks him off.

3:04:46 Jacob: And so my point was just like it is so bad out there.

3:04:49 Jacob: Like it's hard to it's I think it's hard for people to grasp even how to be a good Christian juror if like we're arguing, you know, about this kind of stuff because it's all over the internet.

3:05:02 Jacob: I'm using air quotes, you know, the Christian community is all over the place on what happened.

3:05:07 Timothy: I I'm with you on that.

3:05:08 Timothy: I thought about that today before we got started.

3:05:10 Timothy: It's like, what's the point?

3:05:11 Timothy: Jury I I might as well sit down with somebody in kindergarten and begin to explain the concepts of jury, law, legalism, morality, democracy.

3:05:20 Timothy: Uh that they're not gonna get it, they're gonna be bored, they'd be crying, where's my cookie?

3:05:25 Timothy: That's kind that's where we're at.

3:05:27 Timothy: So it's like, you know, no wonder I'm just kinda being obedient to the Lord and putting the message out.

3:05:33 Timothy: Because if this is the level things are at, you there's no frame of reference, there's no way to get to the truth.

3:05:40 Timothy: Let me ask you a question before we kind of watch this, because you've clearly looked at a lot of the comments.

3:05:45 Timothy: Would you say most are against it, or is it kind of a 50-50, some against it and some for it?

3:05:52 Jacob: The ones I saw did it was it's your typical down the middle, I feel like.

3:05:58 Jacob: Most people are are are saying that what happened at this men's conference is not good, right?

3:06:04 Jacob: So they're not saying it they're not on the side.

3:06:07 Jacob: Yes, oh yeah, I would say the supermajority.

3:06:09 Jacob: But then the and then but then of course there's this whitewash that like instead of sticking to your guns, I feel like a lot of people, you know, you know, we're brothers in Christ, or we're all Christians, or just that kind of thing.

3:06:21 Jacob: So the that's the only reason I wouldn't say it's necessarily down the middle, because most people are like, ooh, that's bad.

3:06:26 Jacob: But then you know what I mean?

3:06:27 Jacob: You still you still have this whitewash going on, I think, where people are just like way too nice still, like, well, this is sin, and call it that, and don't whitewash it.

3:06:39 Timothy: You're getting close to where we're headed after we watch this.

3:06:42 Timothy: Of all the comments that you've looked at and examined, I realize it's it's probably an ongoing debate.

3:06:48 Timothy: How many actually have a statement in there about what to do about it?

3:06:56 Jacob: Um, not many, and then even the statements that they have, I think it's not in anywhere cutting to like the root of what's going on.

3:07:05 Timothy: You know, and yeah, yeah, and I don't want to put you too much because I know when I read comments, some of them are actually pretty not on this issue, but on other issues, you get a lot of detail.

3:07:13 Jacob: I didn't read a lot of comments.

3:07:15 Jacob: I was watching different people's videos because a lot of people have covered what happened, kind of like what we did, where they show the video and then they'll talk about it.

3:07:22 Timothy: Yeah.

3:07:23 Timothy: And and what I'm gonna get to is nobody's offering a solution, not even one commandment, one direction.

3:07:28 Timothy: Well, what should we do about it?

3:07:29 Timothy: We okay, is this a vote?

3:07:30 Timothy: Is this a democracy?

3:07:31 Timothy: We've got a lot of Christians claiming to be a Christian, saying, Oh, that's bad, we shouldn't do it, and then we got uh some saying no, it's okay, and then uh just kind of that's about it.

3:07:42 Timothy: This is not a democracy.

3:07:43 Timothy: This is about whether we obey Jesus Christ or not.

3:07:45 Timothy: Go ahead and play it, and then I'm gonna talk about what we should be seeing going on and what obedience from the living God with the man, if the church weren't dead, this one set of scriptures we're gonna look at in a moment would be all over the place.

3:08:00 Timothy: That when I ask you that question, well, what is it they recommend to do?

3:08:03 Timothy: You go, oh, this scripture, this scripture, this scripture over here.

3:08:06 Timothy: You're not seeing that.

3:08:08 Timothy: No play the clip.

Conference Scandal And Ephesians Five

3:08:11 SPEAKER_15: But let me do this.

3:08:13 SPEAKER_15: Um I've been up since one o'clock in the morning.

3:08:18 SPEAKER_15: The reason I'm coarse is I have been praying for you, and my heart is very burning for you.

3:08:29 SPEAKER_15: And I want to be very careful with this, and it's not what I want to say.

3:08:35 SPEAKER_15: But the Jezebel spirit has already been here.

3:08:40 SPEAKER_15: The Jezebel spirit opened our event.

3:08:43 SPEAKER_15: This is a rebuke and a correction of no one.

3:08:45 SPEAKER_15: This is an observation.

3:08:47 SPEAKER_15: Before the word of God was open, there was a platform, it was a high place.

3:08:54 SPEAKER_15: On it was a pole, an ash.

3:09:01 SPEAKER_15: The same thing that's using a strip club for women who have the chess about spirit to seduce men.

3:09:09 SPEAKER_15: In front of that was a man who ripped his shirt off like a woman does in front of a pole at a strip club.

3:09:21 SPEAKER_15: That man then ascended.

3:09:31 SPEAKER_15: See, our God is not arrogant, he doesn't listen, our God is humble, he decent.

3:09:39 SPEAKER_15: And then he swallowed a sword in Jesus Christ.

3:09:44 SPEAKER_15: Okay, Pastor John, I'm receiving.

3:09:48 SPEAKER_15: Thank you.

3:10:47 SPEAKER_09: He's not mine.

3:10:48 SPEAKER_09: If you want to say it, you can say it to me.

3:10:52 SPEAKER_09: You may not agree with me, you may not agree with me, but we are brothers in Christ, and there's a right way to handle this.

3:11:01 Timothy: Did did he say in there, Jacob, that this wasn't a rebuke?

3:11:05 Timothy: Did I catch that right?

3:11:07 Jacob: Yes.

3:11:08 Jacob: He's he super soft, softballed it.

3:11:10 Jacob: He's not even he's not even saying that yeah, he's not even saying that they're wrong.

3:11:15 Jacob: He's just saying like this is so yeah, he he was even in his rebuke that wasn't a rebuke, he softballed it.

3:11:23 Jacob: And then he wanted, I mean it's obvious he wants he he wanted off that stage.

3:11:29 SPEAKER_07: See, because you can hear the other pastor going, Mark, Mark, you're out of line, you're out of line, Mark.

3:11:34 Jacob: Right?

3:11:35 Jacob: And then he's like, Oh, what, you're kicking me off?

3:11:37 Jacob: Okay, I'm out of here.

3:11:38 Jacob: That's just it's I'm laughing because it's not funny, but like that's he didn't sit, you know what I mean?

3:11:44 Jacob: He didn't keep going.

3:11:45 Jacob: He didn't he was just like, oh, what you want me gone?

3:11:47 Jacob: Okay, I'm leaving.

3:11:48 Timothy: Well, part of the problem is he's so busy apologizing.

3:11:51 Timothy: This is not a rebuke, it's not that, and I saw this and this like you know, if you'd have just got to the point, he you'd have had it all said and done.

3:11:59 Timothy: But again, he's I white war shouldn't softball when you say this is not a rebuke.

3:12:06 Timothy: That's just a lie.

3:12:07 Timothy: Of course it's a rebuke.

3:12:08 Jacob: Oh, I know, yeah, it is it is so just yeah, call it what it is.

3:12:12 Jacob: That's what you're doing.

3:12:12 Jacob: You're saying this is wrong.

3:12:15 Timothy: Okay, and so all right.

3:12:17 Timothy: Uh then of course uh these these people are clueless.

3:12:22 Jacob: So he starts.

3:12:23 Jacob: This is a men's conference.

3:12:24 Jacob: I'm just this is a men conference.

3:12:26 Jacob: So unfortunately, you know what I mean?

3:12:27 Jacob: This is the supposed leaders of people's families and houses.

3:12:30 Jacob: Oh, they're all gonna move out from there, yeah.

3:12:33 Jacob: And we'll see, even in the crowd, I'll also say this.

3:12:35 Jacob: See, some people were uh the crowd was already semi-divided.

3:12:39 Jacob: I don't know the percentage, because later on in people's comments, some people were for Pastor Mark, like, yeah, that's right, that that poll and that stuff was bad.

3:12:47 Jacob: And then other people were on the Lindell side, and then the controversy continued not to go on and on about this story because we could be here all day, but they're still sort of fighting over it because they they like kind of made up, and then they didn't, and then Mark called him out still, and then the other guy called him out when he went back to his church, and they're still just kind of like fighting over the issue.

3:13:10 Timothy: All right.

3:13:12 Timothy: You know what?

3:13:12 Timothy: Let's quit blaming Jezebel for everything.

3:13:14 Timothy: I mean, there are a lot of Jezebels out there, sure, but but that that's a favorite among the charismatic it's Jezebel's spirit, Jezebel's.

3:13:22 Timothy: It's kind of like psychologists go schizophrenic, schizophrenic.

3:13:25 Timothy: Well, it covers everything and all the drugs you want to give.

3:13:28 Timothy: Then, of course, they go to the foolishness of come to me in private, you know, there's a right way to do this.

3:13:35 Jacob: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

3:13:36 Timothy: All right, well, let me before I get to my main scripture, man, we may never get to Jan's testimony, um, about what should be happening.

3:13:45 Timothy: The scripture that says go to your brother one-on-one does not apply to this situation.

3:13:54 Jacob: And everybody was agreeing with that.

3:13:56 Jacob: Meaning all the all the videos I watched, everybody was like, Yeah, he that guy's just that that doesn't work.

3:14:02 Jacob: That's not that's like your brother's.

3:14:04 Jacob: Yeah, so anyways, everybody was on board with that because like that's where something that you see in private, this is public.

3:14:10 Jacob: This is a giant public performance that happens.

3:14:14 Jacob: So yeah, everybody was on board with that that I saw.

3:14:16 Timothy: Okay, well then and then I'll script my I will skip the scripture because it was Galatians 2.14, where Paul confronted Peter to his face because it was affecting the whole crowd, and that's what you do.

3:14:27 Timothy: Well, good.

3:14:28 Timothy: Uh at least they got that concept.

3:14:30 Timothy: Too bad everybody that saw that didn't just confront the person next to them that was disagreeing or liking the the poll show.

3:14:37 Timothy: And did he say something about the the striptease girls are are dancing on there to tempt who?

3:14:44 Timothy: The men or the women?

3:14:45 Timothy: I I didn't quite catch that.

3:14:46 Timothy: I mean, just cut out.

3:14:47 Timothy: Or was it not really wrong?

3:14:48 Jacob: Well, I I don't think he was harping on that.

3:14:51 Jacob: He he was just saying pretty much like this is the same show that you would see at a strip club.

3:14:56 Jacob: This, you know, a strip club, women take off their clothes and dance on a pole, and this guy's taking off his shirt, dancing on a pole.

3:15:02 Jacob: So it's it's just it's obvious like this is not a good thing.

3:15:06 Jacob: Well, it's obvious.

3:15:07 Jacob: Why is this here?

3:15:08 Timothy: But you'd have to back up the whole worship service is entertainment, the fact you've got too many people there.

3:15:13 Timothy: You know what?

3:15:14 Timothy: I've said this before, it's not boasting break.

3:15:16 Timothy: Give me 60 minutes.

3:15:17 Timothy: Well, in fact, he had about 60 seconds, give me 60 minutes of preaching a sermon.

3:15:20 Timothy: I can clear that room pretty much down to a very, very small number.

3:15:24 Timothy: All right, let's let's go to Ephesians 5 1 and see what everybody should be doing.

3:15:30 Timothy: And this would be the measurement scripture that would apply to this whole situation before you got there, when you were there, and afterwards.

3:15:38 Timothy: This is like how we live our Christian disciple life as we follow the Holy Spirit and pick up our cross.

3:15:44 Timothy: Ephesians 5.1.

3:15:46 Timothy: And I've covered this in other podcasts, so I'm not going to go like into super, super detail.

3:15:51 Timothy: This is mostly just kind of a reminder.

3:15:53 Timothy: It demolishes this is just total nonsense.

3:15:56 Timothy: This is the blind leading the blind.

3:15:57 Timothy: And I'm including the audience in that, and the commentaries are out there, unless they've gone to Ephesians 5.1 and said, you know what, we need to repent.

3:16:06 Timothy: All of us, whatever side we agree on, of our inaction and our lack of judgment by the power of the Holy Spirit to ensure that our conferences are clean and equal to the Word of God.

3:16:17 Timothy: You know, this is why scripture says watch your life and doctrine closely.

3:16:21 Timothy: What's happened is this this isn't like all of a sudden you had this really nice, solid, sound doctrine over the last three decades at these men's conferences, and then all of a sudden this just came in.

3:16:33 Jacob: At that point, it would be so shocking for years.

3:16:36 Jacob: Yeah.

3:16:36 Timothy: That would have been this is gonna be mighty gross.

3:16:38 Timothy: I knew you want to visualize this one.

3:16:39 Timothy: But you can imagine at Sound Doctrine Church, Sound Doctrine.

3:16:42 Timothy: We watched our life and our doctrine very closely.

3:16:45 Timothy: I'm gonna I'll use you for example.

3:16:47 Timothy: You come marching in, you get on a pole, you take off your shirt, right?

3:16:50 Timothy: Would that be that would be so far out of the norm.

3:16:55 Timothy: We'd wonder if you'd had a stroke or COVID shot or something did it to you, right?

3:17:00 Timothy: Correct, yes.

3:17:02 Timothy: The only reason this is going on that we have a debate about this is because things are so bad, the church is so dead, they don't realize how lost they're otherwise.

3:17:11 Timothy: This is not a talking point.

3:17:12 Timothy: This is not even a debate.

3:17:14 Timothy: Correct.

3:17:14 Timothy: Ephesians 5, 1.

3:17:16 Timothy: Be imitators of God.

3:17:17 Timothy: Well, would God go up there?

3:17:18 Timothy: Would Jesus go up there?

3:17:20 Timothy: Of course not.

3:17:20 Timothy: Therefore, as dearly loved children.

3:17:22 Timothy: Yeah, yeah, I know.

3:17:23 Timothy: We're all loved, got that down.

3:17:25 Timothy: Verse 2 says, and live a life of love.

3:17:27 Timothy: Well, what is a life of love?

3:17:29 Timothy: Just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

3:17:35 Timothy: Now, here, here's a life of love.

3:17:38 Timothy: Here's a life of love.

3:17:39 Timothy: Ephesians 5 3.

3:17:40 Timothy: But among you, but among you, there must not even be a hint, a hint of sexual normality.

3:17:46 Timothy: Done?

3:17:46 Timothy: Right, Jacob?

3:17:47 Timothy: Yes.

3:17:48 Timothy: Guy coming out, getting on a pole, undressing just like a woman, doing a strip show.

3:17:52 Timothy: What was his point without taking up too much time?

3:17:55 Timothy: What was he even trying to prove?

3:17:57 Jacob: I have no idea.

3:17:57 Jacob: I didn't even dig on that because it's So already there, yeah, like I think you mentioned like there are there are no words, there is no explanation, there can be no justification.

3:18:07 Timothy: There's no debate.

3:18:08 Timothy: There's no discussion.

3:18:09 Jacob: Yeah, there's no debate.

3:18:10 Timothy: Yeah, I'm not going to debate this.

3:18:11 Timothy: This is like uh answering a fool to his folly at this point.

3:18:14 Timothy: What you did is 105,000 percent wrong.

3:18:17 Timothy: You're in leadership.

3:18:18 Timothy: Leaders supposed to be rebuked more sharp.

3:18:20 Timothy: Uh okay.

3:18:20 Timothy: But among you, there must not even be a hint of sexual morality or a hint of any kind of impurity.

3:18:28 Timothy: This is pure?

3:18:30 Timothy: This is holy.

3:18:31 Timothy: The church doesn't, you know, they sometimes deal with sexual morality or they deal with the gross stuff, right?

3:18:37 Timothy: But we don't when's the last time you were in a Bible study or a prayer group and they said, you know, we need to repent of impurity.

3:18:46 Timothy: I I doubt most people would know.

3:18:48 Timothy: If I, first of all, if I went into a conference, okay, define for me purity in God, what would that mean?

3:18:55 Timothy: It covers a lot of things, doesn't it?

3:18:57 Timothy: Not a hint of any kind of impurity.

3:18:59 Timothy: You're done right there.

3:19:00 Timothy: Or of greed.

3:19:01 Timothy: Well, I, you know, it's secondary.

3:19:03 Timothy: If people don't see the first two, they're not going to see the third.

3:19:05 Timothy: This has to do with bringing people in, tithes, donation, increase.

3:19:08 Timothy: It's a form of greed.

3:19:10 Timothy: It's a religious greed, money involved.

3:19:12 Timothy: There shouldn't be a hint of that.

3:19:14 Timothy: And that's where this is coming from.

3:19:15 Timothy: You want to be seen, you want to be known, you want to build your ministry, so on and so forth.

3:19:19 Timothy: Because these are improper for God's holy people.

3:19:23 Timothy: These are not a holy people.

3:19:25 Timothy: I couldn't even have set there.

3:19:27 Timothy: Well, I probably wouldn't have showed up.

3:19:28 Timothy: Verse five, nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk.

3:19:33 Timothy: This is just foolish talk.

3:19:35 Timothy: Coming out, climbing a pole is foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.

3:19:43 Timothy: Now, verse five and six tells us, and especially verse six is going to tell us what to do because it's not enough for anybody to go, well, you know, this is wrong.

3:19:52 Timothy: This is bad.

3:19:53 Timothy: Let me give my list of commentaries.

3:19:55 Timothy: No, what he did was impropriate.

3:19:57 Timothy: I know we're all brothers and we love each other and mushy gooshy, you know, let's have an encounter group, right?

3:20:02 Timothy: Yeah.

3:20:03 Timothy: Verse five says, for of this you can be sure, Ephesians 5, 5, you can be sure of this.

3:20:09 Timothy: You can't be sure of much in this world, but you can be sure of this fact about these pastors and these people that are attending this.

3:20:21 Timothy: For of this you can be sure.

3:20:24 Timothy: I'd say you could bank on it, but that's not gonna make that doesn't mean much today, right?

3:20:29 Timothy: You can be sure.

3:20:30 Timothy: No immoral, this is just immoral.

3:20:33 Timothy: The the whole conference is unclean, impure, immoral.

3:20:37 Timothy: No immoral, impure, or greedy person, such a man as an idolater, and Jesus Christ can be an idol, see 1 Corinthians.

3:20:45 Timothy: We can wind up having our ministry become idols.

3:20:47 Timothy: That's where this nonsense comes from.

3:20:49 Timothy: Such a man is an idolater.

3:20:50 Timothy: Now get this, get this, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God?

3:20:59 Timothy: And I know, oh, you know, you want to judge.

3:21:01 Timothy: Excuse me, it it's very clear.

3:21:04 Timothy: Yeah.

3:21:04 Timothy: When you with these people that attended this conference, these individuals that get up and did these things, the one that rebuked the other one, and the one you know did this, and they work it all out.

3:21:13 Timothy: According to Ephesians 5, 5, just a rudimentary reading of ink on paper.

3:21:18 Timothy: I mean, I'd recommend listening to the Holy Spirit and going from there.

3:21:21 Timothy: That's what the Bible tells us to do.

3:21:24 Timothy: How much are they guaranteed that they will inherit the kingdom of God and go to heaven?

3:21:31 Timothy: No inheritance.

3:21:32 Timothy: None.

3:21:34 Timothy: None.

3:21:34 Timothy: Now, and all the comments that you saw out there, how many people were saying this group, this men's conference, these pastors do not have any zero zip, nothing.

3:21:46 Timothy: They will not be going to heaven.

3:21:49 Timothy: I didn't see that comment anywhere.

3:21:51 Timothy: Then what's the point of the talk?

3:21:53 Timothy: What is the point of the talk?

3:21:55 Timothy: Well, just that.

3:21:56 Timothy: It's talk.

3:21:56 Timothy: We feel I'm condemning it, so I'm on that side.

3:21:59 Timothy: I'm justifying it, so it's on that side.

3:22:01 Timothy: And don't you see the mercy?

3:22:03 Jacob: Don't you see the mercy?

3:22:04 Jacob: Whatever.

3:22:05 Jacob: I think it's also super easy.

3:22:06 Jacob: See, I think it's really easy.

3:22:08 Jacob: A lot of people look at that video and go, oh my goodness, that's so bad.

3:22:11 Jacob: And we agree they shouldn't have a stripper pole.

3:22:13 Jacob: And then what is it doing?

3:22:14 Jacob: That's justifying yourself versus if what you you brought up is no one, no one can sit there.

3:22:21 Jacob: Well, or if you truly believe Ephesians 5.5, then you'll be like, ooh, but uh I'm a tutor, or ooh, I uh I know that I I'm greedy sometimes or in a certain way.

3:22:31 Jacob: You know what I mean?

3:22:32 SPEAKER_24: I guess you start searching your own heart.

3:22:34 Jacob: You start searching your own heart, but no, everybody just wants to sit around and argue about them, and it's easy to point and then oh, well, I I must be doing okay because I'm not stripping, so ha ha ha ha.

3:22:45 Jacob: I think that's what a lot of people.

3:22:46 Jacob: You know what I mean?

3:22:47 Timothy: Oh oh you can even go further than that.

3:22:48 Timothy: I would say 99.9% of the people that it's back to the Garden of Eden, and we'll talk about that later.

3:22:54 Timothy: Everybody's blaming everybody else.

3:22:55 Timothy: So it's natural.

3:22:57 Timothy: If I look at these people, I'm getting into heaven without a problem.

3:23:00 SPEAKER_24: Well, oh, and then but of course I'm trying way too hard.

3:23:03 Timothy: Forget the podcast.

3:23:04 Timothy: I'm gonna I don't know what I'd get back to, but sit on the front yard and watch the birds land.

3:23:09 Timothy: I don't know.

3:23:10 Timothy: Yeah, um I don't look, I look to Jesus Christ.

3:23:15 Timothy: I look to a holy God, I look to his word.

3:23:18 Timothy: So I begin to have a little fear and trembling.

3:23:21 Timothy: I'm with you.

3:23:21 Timothy: It's like, okay, what areas of I'm immoral?

3:23:24 Timothy: What areas of I'm impure?

3:23:25 Timothy: What areas am I greedy?

3:23:27 Timothy: How could I possibly know idolatry?

3:23:29 Timothy: It's like I haven't finished this race.

3:23:31 Timothy: The dangers are out there.

3:23:32 Timothy: What what little things are lurking?

3:23:34 Timothy: Let alone, well, okay, you're defeated if I have to debate with you that having a stripper pole at a podium at a men's conference.

3:23:43 Timothy: Now, men have enough problem dealing with lust, correct?

3:23:48 Timothy: It's like a DNA.

3:23:50 Timothy: And so you're gonna bring in a stripper pole?

3:23:53 Timothy: Yeah.

3:23:54 Timothy: Uh and then go, yeah, I don't know why people wind up committing adultery, or I don't know why there's so much sensual immorality.

3:24:01 Timothy: Uh you're not stimulating wholesome thinking there.

3:24:04 Timothy: There is anybody going, man, how could you do that?

3:24:06 Timothy: Like a stripper pole, that's I don't uh I don't even want it's like what Christmas tree points to heaven?

3:24:13 Timothy: I don't know.

3:24:14 Timothy: I don't know.

3:24:15 Timothy: The point is, has any zero, there is no inheritance in the kingdom of God.

3:24:19 Timothy: Now, do we believe that?

3:24:20 Timothy: That and I'm not asking you, do we believe that?

3:24:22 Timothy: Do these people believe that?

3:24:23 Timothy: Could I stand up in front of the this uh conference or whatever it is and go, okay, just this one passage and say, okay, how many people believe this?

3:24:33 Jacob: Well, uh, they would raise their hand and they would probably say they believe it because, see, they have been saved.

3:24:39 Jacob: They Jesus has forgiven them of the sons, they're a new person, so they're no longer immoral, impure, or greedy because Jesus has washed away their sins.

3:24:49 Jacob: I that's what a like a lot of people believe.

3:24:51 Jacob: That's what they've been told, that's what they believe, that's how they live.

3:24:54 Jacob: That this is I'm I'm just I'm just saying that's what a lot of people justify it that way.

3:24:59 Jacob: This is for the unsaved worldly people.

3:25:02 Jacob: But since I'm a saved person, this like I'm that's what a lot of people think.

3:25:08 Timothy: So you're you have a salvation without any obedience.

3:25:11 Timothy: Is that what I'm hearing?

3:25:13 Timothy: Uh yeah, a lot.

3:25:15 Timothy: Well, I'm not gonna debate with you because you know the logic from there.

3:25:17 Jacob: But first and foremost, you are saved.

3:25:20 Jacob: See, you are a new creation.

3:25:21 Jacob: As soon as you got saved and you got baptized and you gave your life to Jesus, you are now saved.

3:25:27 Jacob: So then moving forward, this that that's how they would explain it.

3:25:31 Jacob: That they will explain it away, saying that this scripture is talking about, you know, the world and people who are not the sons of God.

3:25:38 Jacob: But I'm a son of God, so of course I have an inheritance.

3:25:42 Timothy: All right.

3:25:42 Timothy: I gotta pass on with that one because Ephesians 5 3 says, But among you there must not be hen.

3:25:47 Timothy: He's talking to Christians, he's not talking to the world.

3:25:49 Jacob: I agree, but I'm just so many people have that, you know.

3:25:52 Jacob: Yeah, anyways.

3:25:53 Jacob: I don't know.

3:25:53 Jacob: Somehow you asked it and I it was answering.

3:25:56 Timothy: Oh no, I'm glad you went off on it.

3:25:57 Timothy: Okay, well let's just demolish that.

3:25:59 Timothy: I was gonna ask you, did you go to that conference, Jacob?

3:26:03 Timothy: Oh I'll let you read Ephesians 5, 6.

3:26:07 Timothy: Go ahead and and read it smooth enough and and soak it in compared to what you just said.

3:26:12 Timothy: Feel free to rant or I will come in on it.

3:26:15 Timothy: Let no one deceive you with no let no one what?

3:26:20 Timothy: Deceive you.

3:26:22 Timothy: Oh, I know I interrupted you.

3:26:23 Timothy: You got Jesus saved, Holy Spirit, use all the key words.

3:26:27 Timothy: Those words are being used to deceive.

3:26:30 Timothy: As Jesus said, you travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and then they're twice as fit for hell.

3:26:37 Timothy: Go ahead.

3:26:42 Jacob: For because of such things, God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

3:26:48 Jacob: Wow, he's writing to Christians about obedience, Jacob?

3:26:52 Timothy: Yes.

3:26:53 Timothy: Now you sure somebody from the Ephesians there's a lost manuscript out there writing to Paul.

3:26:58 Timothy: Oh, no, no, no, you missed.

3:26:59 Timothy: We're saved, we're blessed, we're holy, we're saved.

3:27:02 Timothy: You're making this salvation by works.

3:27:03 Timothy: Why you you you sure that parchment isn't out there somewhere?

3:27:09 Jacob: What?

3:27:09 Jacob: You're saying that that parchment, oh, this is a lost parchment that we just got.

3:27:12 Timothy: Well, no, no, there must be a there must be a lost parchment out there that uh pole vaulting Jesus over here or pastor over here it must know that we don't know about.

3:27:23 Timothy: I guess so, yeah.

3:27:24 Timothy: They they they yeah, we just haven't found it yet.

3:27:28 Timothy: Okay.

3:27:28 Timothy: Let no one deceive you with empty words.

3:27:30 Timothy: All this, all this at best is empty words.

3:27:32 Timothy: There's just nothing there.

3:27:34 Timothy: For because of such things, this actions, look at it.

3:27:38 Timothy: God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

3:27:43 Timothy: You they violated every scripture coming on, I guarantee you, doctrine, life, everything.

3:27:48 Timothy: God's wrath, it's not that they're not even going to be saved.

3:27:51 Timothy: God's wrath is gonna come on these people, like twice as much as the world.

3:27:55 Timothy: The world at least says, I don't care about God, don't believe in God, this is my sin, whatever, I like my lies, whatever it is they do, but these are people claiming to be Christians, claiming to be leadership of quote-unquote men, no, the wrath is gonna be mighty severe.

3:28:13 Timothy: I I lose words at that point because who can talk about the wrath of God on such things like this and adequately ever have the words to describe it?

3:28:23 Timothy: Yeah.

3:28:24 Timothy: Ephesians 5 7.

3:28:25 Timothy: Now we get down to okay, what should everybody be doing who's commenting about this that doesn't like it?

3:28:33 Timothy: What should they be doing and what should they have done?

3:28:37 Timothy: Ephesians 5.7 says, are we ready?

3:28:41 Timothy: Write it down, get your pencil and paper.

3:28:43 Timothy: I'd recommend letting the Holy Ghost write it on your heart as you pick up your cross, as you hate your own life, and as you give up everything, and as you walk in the new creation, Ephesians 5.7 tells us exactly what should have happened at this conference.

3:29:00 Timothy: Therefore, do not be partners with them.

3:29:08 Timothy: Should have walked out.

3:29:10 Timothy: And you never should have walked in.

3:29:12 Timothy: But let's just say somebody gets in there and they happen to bump in by the Holy Spirit on Ephesians 5.7, and they turn to the other guy who's like, Yeah, this is nuts.

3:29:21 Timothy: This is crazy, this is sinful.

3:29:22 Timothy: You go, well, you know, we shouldn't be partners, and they start to walk out.

3:29:25 Timothy: Now that would have been revival.

3:29:28 Timothy: Where where's all this talk about revival out here, and there's revival breaking in here, and there's baptisms over here and all this?

3:29:33 Timothy: Really?

3:29:33 Timothy: I don't see any, any Ephesians 5.7 attitude, zeal, anything associated.

3:29:40 Timothy: This should not even have been able to be pulled off.

3:29:44 Timothy: A church that is alive, it just could not happen.

3:29:49 Timothy: Alright, anything else on it, Jacob?

3:29:51 Timothy: Because I think now we will get to move into Jan testifying about the dog and pony show.

3:29:57 Jacob: Nope, nothing for me.

3:29:59 Timothy: Alrighty, can you find that clip?

3:30:01 Timothy: I should have stuck it in the notes where uh Paul Sewell calls this a dog and pony show.

3:30:08 Timothy: So remind people what we're talking about.

3:30:12 SPEAKER_05: October 2006, jury selection, courtroom 4G, Seattle King County Prosecutors.

3:30:20 SPEAKER_05: Prosecutor Paul Sewell.

3:30:22 SPEAKER_05: Been selected for jury duty before?

3:30:24 SPEAKER_05: Then you know it's a dog and pony show.

3:30:28 SPEAKER_05: So justice is driven back, and righteousness stands at a distance.

3:30:33 SPEAKER_05: Truth has stumbled in the streets, honesty cannot enter.

3:30:38 SPEAKER_05: Isaiah 59 14.

3:30:41 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.

3:30:43 SPEAKER_05: www.consider.info.

3:30:47 SPEAKER_05: Where the rubber meets the road.

When Judges Ignore Constitutional Rights

3:30:52 Timothy: We're going to continue to talk about Jan's testimony of how she experienced both in terms of the hate crime that the state of Washington committed against us as a church and her experience later on of going in and listening to prosecutors, and he represents everyone as a dog and pony show.

3:31:14 Timothy: We've already kind of discussed that in two or three episodes.

3:31:17 Timothy: And we're talking about jurors that are fools.

3:31:21 Timothy: Let me give you a classic example, Jacob.

3:31:24 Timothy: Um what do you think?

3:31:27 Timothy: If you went in for a jury duty, right, and the the the judge said, you know, this is Washington State.

3:31:37 Timothy: And the Constitution says there's freedom of religion, but this is Washington State.

3:31:42 Timothy: And so we don't talk about freedom of religion here.

3:31:48 Timothy: What do you think?

3:31:49 Timothy: What would you say?

3:31:50 Timothy: Well, yeah, as a juror.

3:31:51 Timothy: You walk in and you're there before the judge and you're there before everybody, and the judge says flat out, I know the Constitution says freedom of religion, but this is Washington State.

3:32:02 Timothy: We don't we don't allow that.

3:32:04 Timothy: We only allow our policemen to dictate what people should believe and live.

3:32:09 Timothy: And if we can find enough people to complain about freedom of religion and their quote unquote bad experience, and by the way, finding people to talk bad about any group isn't very difficult.

3:32:19 Timothy: And we're going to prosecute you because there is no freedom of religion in Washington State.

3:32:26 Timothy: We don't care what the Constitution says.

3:32:28 Timothy: Your response?

3:32:30 Jacob: If he if he flat out uh says that, then he shouldn't be a judge because he's not uh he's not even upholding the law.

3:32:38 Jacob: There's laws, there's freedom of religion on the books.

3:32:41 Jacob: If he blatantly says, like, yeah, I'm just not going to do that, then you should call for his judgeship to be stripped.

3:32:48 Timothy: Yeah, well, and I agree with you.

3:32:49 Timothy: Don't disagree on that.

3:32:50 Timothy: I the judge should be in jail.

3:32:52 Timothy: Uh you can't take the Constitution and void the Constitution and then say you're a legal entity, and that's happening everywhere.

3:33:01 Timothy: If you wanted to add 28-2930 on why America is being destroyed, it's because you've got judges everywhere just picking and choosing what laws to apply, how they want to interpret, and ignore it.

3:33:12 Timothy: They just they literally do, and I think it should be evident to everybody, ignore the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

3:33:18 Timothy: I they completely ignore it.

3:33:19 Timothy: It's it's not even there.

3:33:20 Timothy: Well, there's a judge in New York named Judge Abanana Darka, and that I'm sure I'm mispronouncing it's all spelled.

3:33:29 Timothy: It's Judge A B N A, and her last name is D-A-R-K-E-H.

3:33:36 Timothy: Any clue on how that would be pronounced, J.

3:33:39 Timothy: No, I don't know.

3:33:40 Timothy: All right.

3:33:41 Timothy: She said in a courtroom in New York, quote, do not bring the Second Amendment into this courtroom.

3:33:50 Timothy: It doesn't exist here.

3:33:53 Timothy: You can't argue Second Amendment.

3:33:56 Timothy: This is New York.

3:34:00 Timothy: Crazy.

3:34:02 Timothy: Of course, what did the jury come back with, Jacob?

3:34:04 Timothy: That what what it was is who cares about these cases?

3:34:07 Timothy: I mean, if our judges say that, it's like, man, you should be in jail.

3:34:11 Timothy: You should be in prison somewhere serving hard labor and thinking about what you're doing.

3:34:16 Timothy: I don't no wonder the Washington State Bar Association here did away with the bar exam.

3:34:21 Timothy: Nobody follows it.

3:34:22 Timothy: It's all going to be this feely social justice nonsense.

3:34:27 Timothy: I want to repeat that again.

3:34:29 Timothy: Do not bring the Second Amendment into this courtroom.

3:34:32 Timothy: It doesn't exist here, so you can't argue Second Amendment.

3:34:35 Timothy: This is New York.

3:34:36 Timothy: And actually, the jury found the defendant guilty.

3:34:42 Timothy: Crazy.

3:34:43 Timothy: Same thing happened to us.

3:34:45 Timothy: It was essentially, well, she didn't come out and just literally say there is no freedom of religion.

3:34:49 Timothy: Everything about that particular case was freedom of association was gone, freedom of religion was gone, freedom of speech was gone.

3:34:56 Timothy: They don't prosecute liars, so there is no just.

3:34:59 Timothy: It goes on down the line.

3:35:00 Timothy: And the jury just sat there and soaked that all up.

3:35:03 Timothy: Same thing.

3:35:03 Timothy: What the jury found is some guy named Taylor, and what he was doing is he just had an interest in building guns.

3:35:09 Timothy: So he would go out and buy parts from different people that sell different parts and then put them together.

3:35:15 Timothy: Well, naturally, the government didn't like that.

3:35:16 Timothy: They arrested him, so on and so forth.

3:35:18 Timothy: So he's looking at you know 20 years in prison.

3:35:21 Timothy: And this is how the judge begins her case.

3:35:24 Timothy: Well, if we're just going to do away with the Constitution, which that's what Washington State does, that's what New York does.

3:35:30 Timothy: There is, as everybody knows, a breakdown of the law.

3:35:32 Timothy: But the problem is why are the juries so much acting as fools?

3:35:39 Timothy: And when I use the term fool, I mean to be able to repent of being a fool.

3:35:44 Timothy: Go ahead and play that next clip that'll kind of bring that together.

3:35:49 SPEAKER_05: Who is the top dog fool among fools?

3:35:52 SPEAKER_05: Who is the king or queen of fools?

3:35:55 SPEAKER_05: Who is a simple Simon?

3:35:58 SPEAKER_05: The fool of fools is the fool that refuses to repent of being a fool.

3:36:04 SPEAKER_05: Proverbs 122.

3:36:06 SPEAKER_05: How long will you simple ones love your simple ways?

3:36:10 SPEAKER_05: How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?

3:36:16 SPEAKER_05: Become wise.

3:36:17 SPEAKER_05: Betray your pride that loves your simple ways.

3:36:21 SPEAKER_05: Become wiser still through corrections, rebukes, and repentance.

3:36:26 SPEAKER_05: Become full of wisdom.

3:36:28 SPEAKER_05: Stop mocking the knowledge of things you do not understand.

3:36:32 SPEAKER_05: Proverbs 15 7.

3:36:34 SPEAKER_05: The lips of the wise spread knowledge, not so the hearts of fools.

3:36:40 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast, where even fools have opportunity to become wise.

3:36:49 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.info where the river meets the road.

3:37:02 Timothy: Everything about this podcast is a call for people to repent.

3:37:07 Timothy: The opportunity, if you're a fool, to repent and become wise.

3:37:12 Timothy: I can't go through how that would take place.

3:37:14 Timothy: You know, there was a judge in King County, Washington, Seattle, Washington state, named Susan Craighead.

3:37:22 Timothy: And uh we had dialogue because what she had done, she had given a speech literally stating that white people cannot understand justice.

3:37:34 Timothy: So I went at that.

3:37:35 Timothy: It's like absurd.

3:37:36 Timothy: So you gotta understand that was revealed, that was put out there.

3:37:42 Timothy: Now, what I'm really getting to is that she died.

3:37:44 Timothy: She passed away, I think, last year.

3:37:46 Timothy: And she had a chance to repent of that.

3:37:49 Timothy: It was a clear type interaction going on.

3:37:52 Timothy: Now, she didn't talk to me personally, she had every opportunity to do so.

3:37:56 Timothy: All of these prosecutors and judges can repent, but they refused to do so.

3:37:59 Timothy: And what you're gonna hear in Jan's testimony is how they hide in the darkness.

3:38:03 Timothy: Because what happened is she gave a speech that literally said, White people cannot understand justice.

3:38:10 Timothy: So now you understand why we were definitely that was just one element of why the prosecutors were able to have the judge manipulate the case so that the truth could not even get well, if the truth were there, it wouldn't even gone to trial.

3:38:25 Timothy: Um when I started going for it, I wanted the video clips.

3:38:30 Timothy: I went back to get it.

3:38:31 Timothy: It was on King County Prosecutors website, and then when I went right back to go get it, once my message had kind of gone out, they took it down, and of course their excuse was, oh, due to copyright infringement, we took it down.

3:38:45 Timothy: You had to laugh.

3:38:46 Timothy: It's like, okay, all you judges do is lie, make up stories, and go deeper in darkness.

3:38:49 Timothy: So my point being is this attitude that whites need to be punished permeates everything from family court to every governmental thing.

3:38:58 Timothy: They're all playing to it.

3:38:59 Timothy: Now they may go on a little bit underground and they may cover their bases, but that's all they're doing.

3:39:03 Timothy: You just can't get to it.

3:39:04 Timothy: One reason we're able to get to a lot of this nonsense is they were arrogant and prideful up to that point, and nobody was actually coming back at it.

3:39:12 Timothy: Now that it's being exposed, they're not repenting.

3:39:15 Timothy: Nobody, no prosecutor, nobody, no policeman, nobody has contacted me to repent.

3:39:20 Timothy: There's not even a sign, but plenty of action about hiding in the darkness, keeping information, and we'll get to that here in a moment.

3:39:28 Timothy: Anything before we kind of press on with Jan's thing, Jacob?

3:39:32 Jacob: No.

3:39:34 Timothy: Go ahead, Jacob, and let's start listening to Jan's testimony, and hopefully we can kind of wrap this up today.

Jan Challenges The Prosecutor Publicly

3:39:41 SPEAKER_22: Um it wasn't like he was humbled or humiliated, but it's just like I'm not dealing with this, you know.

3:39:54 SPEAKER_22: I'm not gonna address it.

3:39:57 SPEAKER_22: Well, see, like before when I caught before when I Commented, he was like, Oh, I'm sorry you had that experience and everything.

3:40:04 SPEAKER_22: He was sympathetic towards me.

3:40:06 SPEAKER_22: This time it's just I'm not gonna m touch this one with a ten-foot pole.

3:40:12 Jacob: Oh, because he he wait, because this is the next day.

3:40:15 Jacob: He remembers that case, especially now when you're bringing stuff up, right?

3:40:19 Jacob: Your name and names.

3:40:21 Jacob: He knew.

3:40:21 Jacob: He knows.

3:40:23 SPEAKER_22: He knows the case, and he might have even I don't know, he might have even refreshed his memory before he came back.

3:40:29 SPEAKER_22: I don't know.

3:40:30 SPEAKER_22: But but anyway, yeah, he no, he he knew for he knew for sure then.

3:40:35 SPEAKER_22: And you know, I didn't really think about it at the time, but I was just thinking about it when I was looking over my notes again.

3:40:42 SPEAKER_22: When I actually said the prosecutor and the police work together to withhold evidence from the jury.

3:40:52 SPEAKER_22: Well, I mean, he's the prosecutor.

3:40:55 SPEAKER_22: Oh, yeah.

3:40:55 SPEAKER_22: And this case is in is involved with prosecutors and lots and lots of police.

3:41:01 Jacob: And lots of police, yeah.

3:41:03 Timothy: And I'm telling the jury for a second, Jacob.

3:41:06 Timothy: It's interesting that he didn't even bother to get defensive.

3:41:09 Timothy: Yeah.

3:41:10 Timothy: It's not like uh the King County prosecutor went, oh no, we don't withhold from the jury.

3:41:15 Timothy: Oh no, police never withhold anything.

3:41:17 Timothy: All they could do is remain silent.

3:41:18 Timothy: You always know you have a lawyer or prosecutor caught or a judge when they're silent.

3:41:23 Jacob: Because the judge could have said, Oh, ma'am, you know, uh I I wasn't involved with that case.

3:41:28 Jacob: I wasn't, I didn't, I didn't preside as a judger for that case, but I can guarantee you that will not happen in this courtroom.

3:41:34 Jacob: The judge didn't say anything, nobody said anything.

3:41:36 Timothy: Nobody said anything.

3:41:37 Timothy: They all knew it to be true.

3:41:41 Timothy: All right, keep going.

3:41:43 SPEAKER_22: You know, watch out for this stuff, guys.

3:41:46 SPEAKER_22: Go for facts, not emotions.

3:41:50 Jacob: What was was there any other reactions amongst the jurors that you noticed when you said that?

3:41:57 SPEAKER_22: Not that I noticed.

3:41:59 SPEAKER_22: Not that I noticed.

3:42:00 Jacob: Yeah.

3:42:01 SPEAKER_22: But you know, because after I said it, uh Yeah, because you know, uh yeah, uh nobody really said anything to me.

3:42:11 SPEAKER_22: I mean, you know.

3:42:13 SPEAKER_22: So uh So what happens next?

3:42:16 Timothy: So anyway, then he just Hey, hang on, yeah, pause it there.

3:42:19 Timothy: What happened to our what happened to our counter group, Jacob?

3:42:24 Timothy: Oh, where everybody's supposed to talk.

3:42:25 Timothy: Well, yeah, that this should have this have been a great entire uh talking point.

3:42:30 Timothy: Let's have a Dr.

3:42:31 Timothy: Phil and Ophir Winfrey.

3:42:33 Timothy: I think I finally got it right.

3:42:35 Timothy: Uh let's talk about that fact.

3:42:37 Timothy: What does everybody feel about that?

3:42:39 Timothy: Go ahead, keep going.

3:42:41 SPEAKER_22: He just goes on, you know, he just goes on, he had a few more questions, and he asked those questions.

3:42:48 SPEAKER_22: Well, then we get to the point where, okay, that the they start eliminating jurors.

3:42:57 SPEAKER_22: And they're taking turns.

3:42:59 SPEAKER_22: The prosecutor and the defense are eliminating jurors.

3:43:04 SPEAKER_22: So they start eliminating jurors, you know, and I was the second juror that the prosecutor said, okay, you know, you can go.

3:43:13 Timothy: I said this before, but I want to repeat it right here.

3:43:15 Timothy: You'll notice he got rid of her.

3:43:17 Timothy: Why why would you why would you get rid of a woman who obviously more prone to feelings who's talking about facts and you just got to watch out?

3:43:26 Timothy: And remember, he said, How many of you will hold me to this?

3:43:29 Jacob: Correct.

3:43:30 Jacob: Yeah.

3:43:30 Jacob: He she she she should be the top of the list.

3:43:33 Jacob: She's gonna do what I have told her to do.

3:43:36 Timothy: Exactly.

3:43:36 Timothy: And he could have said, and he not, you know, I have such a solid case, the state will present this, I will overcome every concern she has because those are all valid concerns.

3:43:46 Timothy: Yeah.

3:43:47 Timothy: Now he got rid of her.

3:43:48 Timothy: That that should tell any potential juror what's going on.

3:43:54 Timothy: She should be held, she should have got a ward from King County prosecutors like you are the juror of jurors we want.

3:44:01 Jacob: Excuse me for laughing.

3:44:02 Jacob: Keep going.

3:44:03 Jacob: Who got to go first?

3:44:04 Jacob: Who gets who gets to boot somebody first?

3:44:06 Jacob: Def uh prosecution or defense?

3:44:10 SPEAKER_22: I think the defense did first.

3:44:12 SPEAKER_22: Okay.

3:44:13 SPEAKER_22: Got to you know, yeah.

3:44:15 SPEAKER_22: Uh and they said, okay, juror number so so, you know, you know, we're all identified as numbers.

3:44:21 SPEAKER_22: Okay, you can go, and then the prosecutor adds someone go, and you know, then it goes back and forth.

3:44:29 SPEAKER_22: But it was interesting, you know.

3:44:30 SPEAKER_22: Okay, so I'm the second one he tells to go.

3:44:33 SPEAKER_22: But he was very it was interesting because he was like very friendly to me when I, you know, when I left.

3:44:41 Jacob: Sure, you're out.

3:44:42 Jacob: It wasn't he's happy.

3:44:44 Jacob: He got you out.

3:44:46 Jacob: He says I don't want to touch you.

3:44:48 Jacob: Yeah.

3:44:49 Timothy: Prosecutor Yeah, pause that for a second.

3:44:52 Timothy: People should really watch out.

3:44:54 Timothy: The some of your best prosecutors come across as the most likable.

3:45:00 Timothy: You know what the difference is between a bad life insurance salesman and a good one, Jacob?

3:45:06 Timothy: Uh no.

3:45:08 Timothy: Anybody, I mean, be f long, especially before TV, but life insurance is not usually considered people's favorite thing to go purchase, right?

3:45:17 Timothy: And there's movies that joke about life insurance salesmen.

3:45:21 Timothy: The best ones are your friendly ones.

3:45:24 Timothy: They're able to converse and talk and dialogue and get involved.

3:45:28 Timothy: And before long, they're making buying life insurance enjoyable.

3:45:32 Timothy: You gotta watch out.

3:45:33 Timothy: Uh prosecutor Mark Larson the same way, he's a good old boy.

3:45:36 Timothy: Now he certainly has the pride and the arrogance they all come into the courtroom, but it is a form of manipulation.

3:45:43 Timothy: Oh, we're friendly, we're good people, you know, uh we're all nice, and so you you they want you to like them.

3:45:51 Timothy: It has nothing to do with the facts.

3:45:53 Timothy: Uh it's whether you can like the prosecution or not.

3:45:57 Timothy: That's just one.

3:45:58 Timothy: You wouldn't have known this, but back when I was a kid, when there was like three TV channels, um, there was a book out like Win Your Case Every Time.

3:46:06 Timothy: And I don't know, I would have been 10, 12 years old, maybe.

3:46:10 Timothy: Uh but he was a good good-looking, good old boy.

3:46:12 Timothy: You know, he had on the cowboy, you remember the fringes on the leather type stuff.

3:46:17 Timothy: And and you could you just looked at him, you just liked him.

3:46:19 Timothy: He was a defense attorney, and he never lost a case.

3:46:23 Timothy: The reason why, one reason why was that he was just a good old boy.

3:46:28 Timothy: And he came across as a good boy, and the jurors liked them and they wanted to please him.

3:46:32 Timothy: Now, as a sub note, I was suspicious of like I've never lost a case because you just don't take cases, you'll lose.

3:46:40 Timothy: Correct.

3:46:41 Timothy: So that's a sub-issue.

3:46:42 Timothy: So watch out for the nice prosecutor.

3:46:45 Timothy: It's all a dog and pony show.

3:46:48 Timothy: It's all to manipulate your feelings.

3:46:51 Jacob: Keep going.

3:46:53 Jacob: Paul Seawolf says, I'm getting this one out because I'm running this pony show.

3:47:00 unknown: Yeah, right.

3:47:01 SPEAKER_22: I'm running it my way, yeah.

3:47:04 Jacob: I am running it my way.

3:47:05 Jacob: So he got you out one way or the other.

3:47:07 Jacob: And so then uh and this is when when they cut you loose, this is all in front of one, it's all in the same big room, and then they just boot you, and you literally just stand up and walk out.

3:47:17 SPEAKER_22: Exactly.

3:47:17 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

3:47:18 SPEAKER_22: You stand up, you walk out, you're done.

3:47:20 Jacob: That's it.

3:47:21 Jacob: You're done.

3:47:23 Jacob: So whatever um whatever happened to Mr.

3:47:28 Jacob: Bernard?

3:47:29 Jacob: Did you ever did you ever find out later what happened with this case?

3:47:32 Jacob: Were you curious?

3:47:35 SPEAKER_22: Yes.

3:47:35 SPEAKER_22: It was very interesting.

3:47:37 SPEAKER_22: I thought what happened.

3:47:38 SPEAKER_22: The jury in this case was deadlocked.

3:47:43 Jacob: Oh.

3:47:44 Jacob: It was a f they really not.

3:47:47 SPEAKER_22: Mm-hmm.

3:47:47 SPEAKER_22: Mm-hmm.

3:47:48 SPEAKER_22: They could not make a decision.

3:47:51 SPEAKER_22: How did you find how did you find it out?

3:47:53 Jacob: How did you how did you find out this out?

3:47:56 SPEAKER_22: Uh in the court documents and newspaper.

3:48:03 Jacob: Did uh how how easy was it to get your hands on court documents?

3:48:11 SPEAKER_22: Um yeah, I would say it was and it wasn't.

3:48:19 SPEAKER_22: I mean, the thing is, I could not I could not find this case in the court documents.

3:48:25 Jacob: Oh, really?

3:48:26 SPEAKER_22: And I yes, um, because I w I wanted to I wanted to see what happened and I couldn't find it.

3:48:34 SPEAKER_22: I called the clerk's office and you know they verified the scene.

3:48:38 Timothy: Let's go to John chapter three, verse twenty and twenty-one.

Records Buried In Darkness

3:48:43 Timothy: We as taxpayers and thinking individuals should be entitled to everything, short of some, and it would have to be in the 1% territory, you know, where you're trying to stop terrorists or whatever, but that's not what happens.

3:48:59 Timothy: These judges, these prosecutors, they spend a great deal of time hiding their nefarious activity.

3:49:07 Timothy: One of the reasons King County prosecutors, besides refusing to investigate, it's interesting there's a policeman on trial, and King County prosecutors are willing so far to spend two million dollars on the prosecution.

3:49:20 Timothy: We were crying out for there to be an investigation.

3:49:23 Timothy: They wouldn't spend a dime, and we were flat out told we will not investigate.

3:49:28 Timothy: So they spend their time hiding, and what happens is they start walking in darkness, and they don't even know the difference between their lies and the truth.

3:49:36 Timothy: They don't even care.

3:49:38 Timothy: But they wind up putting themselves in darkness, and so much is hidden, and they know they can outmaneuver any truth to bring into the courtroom, and that's exactly what happens.

3:49:46 Timothy: What happened here is, and it's kind of amazing, you got 30 police officers, you got this guy on trial, and it's a deadlock jury.

3:49:53 Timothy: You know, Jan's testimony, that should be being played in the lobby.

3:49:57 Timothy: That should be played in the lobby of the jury saying, take this serious, look for facts, look over because is she not the ideal juror that you would want?

3:50:06 Timothy: Yes.

3:50:07 Timothy: Of course it is.

3:50:08 Timothy: Somebody based on facts and truth and so on.

3:50:12 Timothy: All right, if he or sorry, John 320.

3:50:14 Timothy: Everyone who does evil hates the light and will not ex not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

3:50:21 Timothy: What you find here is they're burying and hiding this locked jury situation with this trial.

3:50:28 Timothy: So she can't get to the information.

3:50:31 Timothy: I remember we right now we did an information request to the judges on concerning this court babysitting service that they do.

3:50:40 Timothy: Well, we got a response back from the judges saying, well, we're not obligated to answer those questions.

3:50:46 Timothy: And not only did they say we're not obligated by they said we're not obligated by law to answer your questions, and they sent us copies of the law.

3:50:55 Timothy: What they were doing, of course, is delaying, putting off, just being obnoxious, obstructing the aspect.

3:51:01 Timothy: All you had to do is turn over the information.

3:51:03 Timothy: It's very simple information, how much money was given, and so on and so forth, right?

3:51:06 Timothy: It wasn't that complicated.

3:51:07 Timothy: Because we had phrased it like, okay, who gets this money, what's going on?

3:51:11 Timothy: Well, we don't have to answer those questions, which in and of itself is telling you what a vast how is it that, oh, judges don't have to answer questions.

3:51:20 Timothy: Everybody else does, we do, but judges don't.

3:51:23 Timothy: They can hide everything in darkness, then quote, and I laughed.

3:51:26 Timothy: When they sent copies of the law, right?

3:51:28 Timothy: I'm thinking, oh, well, now you claim the law.

3:51:30 Timothy: Now you hide behind the law.

3:51:32 Jacob: Now you follow it.

3:51:33 Jacob: Oh, yeah.

3:51:33 Timothy: You never follow any other time.

3:51:35 Timothy: You never follow the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or anything else.

3:51:37 Timothy: You just resort to whatever game.

3:51:39 Timothy: I mean, besides that, let's just play that game.

3:51:41 Timothy: Okay, follow the law.

3:51:43 Timothy: The Supreme Court of Workshead State has demonstrated to everybody that you can ignore and make up any law you want to and do whatever you want.

3:51:50 Timothy: That's what they do.

3:51:51 Timothy: Correct.

3:51:52 Timothy: So these judges could have easily said, yeah, Supreme Court has said we can do whatever we want, so here's the information.

3:51:58 Timothy: Now, here's kind of a little bit of the hypocrisy in this whole thing.

3:52:02 Timothy: They won't supply us with the information because by law they don't answer questions, right?

3:52:08 Timothy: Well, they answered the question that it's by the law that they don't have to answer the questions.

3:52:13 Timothy: Correct.

3:52:14 Timothy: So if they were going to hold to the law, you don't even send me a copy of the law.

3:52:18 Timothy: You just simply say the question's inappropriate.

3:52:21 Timothy: We don't answer the law.

3:52:22 Timothy: But they answer the law.

3:52:23 Timothy: And here's the flip side: the law doesn't say they can't answer the questions, it just says they're not obligated to.

3:52:30 Timothy: Yeah.

3:52:31 Timothy: So it's not like these judge, oh, it's the law, it's the law.

3:52:34 Timothy: No, no.

3:52:35 Timothy: You can pretty much do whatever you want to do, and besides, let some other judge overrule you.

3:52:40 Timothy: But the point is the law didn't say you couldn't answer the question.

3:52:44 Timothy: The law said that you didn't have to.

3:52:47 Timothy: Bunch of parts.

3:52:47 Timothy: They're hiding in the darkness.

3:52:49 Timothy: John 3 21.

3:52:50 Timothy: But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.

3:53:01 Timothy: I could go on and on about this one as far as them hiding information and documents, but this is well known and goes on.

3:53:08 Timothy: There's a reason why judges in this world wear black.

3:53:12 Timothy: Okay, keep going.

3:53:24 Jacob: Well, wait, they had to send it.

3:53:33 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

3:53:34 SPEAKER_22: Oh yeah.

3:53:34 Jacob: And yeah, I think what do you mean?

3:53:37 Jacob: They're like, we're not gonna tell you.

3:53:39 SPEAKER_22: Well, no, no.

3:53:40 SPEAKER_22: See, they have this online system.

3:53:43 SPEAKER_22: Uh the prosecutors have this have this online system, and you go on this online system, you put in the court, you know, the case number, and all this information comes up.

3:53:52 SPEAKER_22: Well, his information would never come up on this particular case.

3:53:56 SPEAKER_22: A lot of other cases would come up, but not this one.

3:53:59 Jacob: Really?

3:54:00 SPEAKER_22: And yeah, I and I I don't I don't know why, you know, so I couldn't get anything.

3:54:06 SPEAKER_22: So I I finally had to call the clerk, the county clerk, and she's like, Well, I don't know what the problem is, and and everything.

3:54:13 SPEAKER_22: So she had to do kind of special special research on this, and so then she did get me the information.

3:54:21 Jacob: You think they were you think they were like burying this thing?

3:54:26 SPEAKER_22: I don't know.

3:54:27 SPEAKER_22: I don't know.

3:54:28 Jacob: So how so this cause so this took you several tries.

3:54:32 Jacob: How many tries before you finally got it?

3:54:35 SPEAKER_22: Oh, pro oh a lot, like maybe five.

3:54:39 Jacob: Wow.

3:54:40 Jacob: Okay.

3:54:40 Jacob: It just seems weird as all because you said, you know, other cases you can just pop up and I don't I don't you know, are they burying the case because they didn't like what you said, which we know they didn't like what you said.

3:54:52 Jacob: Are they burying the case?

3:54:53 Jacob: Well, okay, do you think okay, do you think, looking back, do you think that like what you said to the jurors like helped them?

3:55:03 Jacob: And hopefully maybe they maybe they followed your advice.

3:55:08 SPEAKER_22: I think maybe they did.

3:55:10 SPEAKER_22: I think some of 'em did, and they really thought about this.

3:55:14 SPEAKER_22: No, look, we have to go on the facts.

3:55:17 SPEAKER_22: Do they have the facts to prove to prove this guy did this?

3:55:22 SPEAKER_10: Yeah.

3:55:23 SPEAKER_22: And so I think some of them were like, no, they really do not have the facts.

3:55:30 Timothy: Hang on, let me let me let me know.

3:55:32 Timothy: We got 30 policemen, Jacob, right?

3:55:35 Timothy: Mm-hmm.

3:55:37 Timothy: So you're telling me 30 people 30 policemen were witness to whatever crime he's accused of.

3:55:43 Timothy: No, this was an emotional play.

3:55:46 Timothy: And once the jurors woke up to, well, okay, let's separate all the emotion, you weren't left with any facts.

3:55:53 Timothy: Sure.

3:55:54 Timothy: And they couldn't prove their case.

3:55:55 Timothy: I remember I don't I tried to look it up to find the photograph.

3:55:58 Timothy: If anybody finds it, kick it my way.

3:56:00 Timothy: And I can't remember exactly who it was, but I the guy had defended himself or went over and shot somebody or whatever.

3:56:07 Timothy: Well, the the courtroom was packed because the prosecutors wanted this guy put away.

3:56:12 Timothy: They weren't actually involved in the prosecution, but they filled the courtroom with like 30 people or 30 prosecutors.

3:56:18 Timothy: I mean, I'm using 30, I don't really know what it was, but it was full.

3:56:22 Timothy: And the judge is allowing this to go on.

3:56:24 Timothy: So they're intimidating the juror.

3:56:26 Timothy: Can you imagine being a juror in a case like this?

3:56:28 Timothy: You look out, and the courtroom is literally half full of like 20 to 40 prosecutors that in that area sitting down intimidating the juror.

3:56:37 Timothy: And he let it go on.

3:56:38 Timothy: Of course they're found guilty.

3:56:40 Timothy: Of course.

3:56:41 Timothy: It's just manipulation.

3:56:42 Timothy: Once you get rid of all of that and become an informed juror, which actually should benefit society.

3:56:49 Timothy: It should be what we all want.

3:56:51 Timothy: Of course, they were bearing this.

3:56:52 Timothy: They didn't want this known at all.

3:56:55 Timothy: We had to I remember kind of going talking her through with all this stuff.

3:56:59 Timothy: This was not an easy process to get it.

3:57:01 Timothy: It took a lot of time, let's put it that way.

3:57:03 Timothy: Go ahead.

3:57:04 SPEAKER_22: They might have the Go ahead.

3:57:08 SPEAKER_22: They might have the 30 police officers and and all this stuff, you know, but do they have the facts on this particular case?

3:57:16 Jacob: Yeah, for sure.

3:57:17 Jacob: And so so you keep your would you describe it?

3:57:21 Jacob: How long was this process?

3:57:22 Jacob: You're because you're trying to it's it's even human nature just to find out like what happened with that case.

3:57:26 Jacob: And you said five times you're trying to figure it out.

3:57:29 Jacob: And so over how long of a time are you trying, you're you're like, I want to know what happened to this case.

3:57:34 Jacob: How long did this take?

3:57:36 SPEAKER_22: I think it took me like probably a couple months, you know, because I I kept getting referred to as like, well, I don't know, you'll have to talk to somebody else.

3:57:45 SPEAKER_22: It's like, okay, who's that, you know?

3:57:47 SPEAKER_22: Okay, then I try to get that person, and you know, they kept they to they were trying to get rid of me.

3:57:53 SPEAKER_22: You know, but I but but in doing that they kept, you know, making me go up to higher people.

3:57:59 SPEAKER_22: So finally I got someone, yes.

3:58:02 SPEAKER_22: So finally I was the persistent, persistent, I guess you'd say the persistent widow type.

3:58:09 SPEAKER_22: And so I, you know, I got someone high up and they're like, Oh, I don't know what the problem is with this, you know, you should have had all these problems here, I'll get it for you.

3:58:21 Jacob: And she finally did.

3:58:22 Jacob: She finally got it.

3:58:23 SPEAKER_22: And she felt and she mentioned we did, yeah.

3:58:27 Jacob: You mentioned that you had looked at the uh you know, court records, right, I guess, of the case, and then also like newspaper stuff.

3:58:33 Jacob: Do you think the two kind of matched up?

3:58:36 Jacob: Yeah.

3:58:37 Jacob: Okay, it did.

3:58:38 Jacob: All right.

3:58:38 SPEAKER_22: Well, they did ex they did accept, you know, this wasn't a case that the newspapers were very, very interested in, so there wasn't a lot of information on it.

3:58:48 SPEAKER_22: Sure.

3:58:48 Jacob: Yeah.

3:58:48 SPEAKER_22: You know.

3:58:49 Jacob: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

3:58:50 SPEAKER_22: Um, yeah.

3:58:51 SPEAKER_22: Because what ended hap end up happening is he got a new trial date and he pled guilty on the second trial date.

3:59:01 SPEAKER_22: So he got some kind of a he got some kind of a plea deal.

3:59:06 Jacob: So this trial he was pleading not guilty.

3:59:10 Jacob: Right.

3:59:11 Jacob: Then then for this particular dog and pony show, they they it was a hung jury, so he's let off, right?

3:59:21 Jacob: He's cut loose.

3:59:22 SPEAKER_22: Well, he's let off he's let off, but then they could they they filed a motion to continue the case.

3:59:29 SPEAKER_22: See, I guess and I don't think that's right.

3:59:32 SPEAKER_22: I don't think that's right.

3:59:32 SPEAKER_22: They they can do that, but that's what they do.

3:59:34 SPEAKER_22: If the jury's deadlocked, they're like, okay, we'll try it again.

3:59:38 Jacob: No way.

3:59:39 Jacob: So do you know for the for the second round, was it the same prosecutor, Paul Sewell, on round number two?

3:59:46 SPEAKER_22: No, I don't know about that.

3:59:49 SPEAKER_22: But we'll see, because on round two he pled guilty.

3:59:56 SPEAKER_22: And so I think they gave him a a very, very good deal, you know, because I I kept looking for him to be in prison because I mean this was a bad guy.

4:00:08 SPEAKER_22: He had killed a lot of people.

4:00:12 SPEAKER_22: I mean, a lot of people.

4:00:13 SPEAKER_22: I mean, like point blank kill people, you know.

4:00:17 Jacob: And so they so he pled guilty, and then so what was the outcome of the second trial?

4:00:22 SPEAKER_22: The outcome is what he he ne he never he never went to prison.

4:00:28 unknown: Okay.

4:00:29 SPEAKER_22: And he had some kind of uh uh I don't know exactly what happened, but I think he he just had to have some kind of supervision for like three years.

4:00:40 SPEAKER_22: And um and then, you know, he got off his supervision.

4:00:44 Jacob: He got off wow, so no jail time though the second second round.

4:00:48 SPEAKER_22: No.

4:00:48 unknown: No.

4:00:49 Jacob: So there's a like a plea deal, right?

4:00:50 Jacob: Yeah, plea deal, yeah.

4:00:52 Jacob: Because you're pleading guilty and then they'll they'll wheel and deal.

4:00:56 Jacob: So the the the second one wasn't really a trial.

4:01:00 Jacob: Did it ever go to trial with jurors?

4:01:03 Jacob: He just cut the deal.

4:01:05 SPEAKER_22: It yeah, it never did.

4:01:07 SPEAKER_22: I mean, they set the they they set the trial date, and then the day of or no, let's see, I think it was five days before the trial, then he pled guilty.

4:01:16 SPEAKER_22: He accepted their plea.

4:01:18 SPEAKER_22: I know okay.

4:01:19 Jacob: The process they come with the deal.

4:01:22 SPEAKER_22: Mm-hmm.

4:01:23 Jacob: Yeah, yeah.

4:01:24 SPEAKER_22: Wow, yeah.

4:01:27 SPEAKER_22: And so, yeah.

4:01:29 SPEAKER_22: So that's pretty much it.

4:01:31 SPEAKER_22: That's what happened.

4:01:32 Jacob: That's your story of uh of the state of Washington versus Bernard Bellaroche with prosecutor Paul Seawill and the dog and pony show.

4:01:47 Timothy: Any other thoughts, Mr.

4:01:51 Timothy: Jacob?

4:01:53 Timothy: Nope.

4:01:55 Timothy: In a minute we'll pray for all these people involved.

4:01:58 Timothy: They all need to repay.

4:02:01 Timothy: But again, if you try to go for information, they'll pull every trick in the book.

4:02:04 Timothy: Uh Ian Claw, Detective Grant McCall, they've shredded his paperwork associated with the trial.

4:02:11 Timothy: They're naturally hiding behind the law, but it's a sham simply because they know that he likely committed crimes and they're just they just bury the information.

4:02:21 Timothy: They just instead of ever going for justice, they just huddle around themselves to protect themselves and everybody else.

4:02:26 Timothy: It's it's an astonishing, astonished group of sins to watch.

4:02:31 Timothy: I encourage everybody, there's a lot of podcasts we've done on jury duty to educate yourself what's going on.

4:02:37 Timothy: I'm not telling you to do anything when you go into jury duty.

4:02:40 Timothy: And in fact, I I recommend you become a quality juror that's able to come to correct decisions and judgments.

4:02:48 Timothy: Society needs that.

4:02:50 Timothy: The court system needs that.

4:02:52 Timothy: Any other comments, Jacob, before we pray and then we're out of here?

4:02:56 Timothy: Nope.

4:02:57 Timothy: Let's pray.

4:02:59 Timothy: Father, we do pray for all the many lives that are involved in this, for the criminal who's done crimes, for the prosecutors who've done crimes, for the judges that have done crimes, for all those crimes, Father, committed against you.

4:03:12 Timothy: Because you're coming with holy judgment.

4:03:15 Timothy: And we pray, Father, that you would lead them to repentance and to your holiness and to obedience.

4:03:23 Timothy: We thank you, Father, that you're coming, that you will bring justice.

4:03:28 Timothy: And we leave it to you, O Lord, because truly you are the only living holy God worthy of repaying in Jesus' most holy name.

4:03:39 Timothy: Amen.

4:03:41 Timothy: Amen.

4:03:49 SPEAKER_12: J.F., who lives in Brazil, said of the book, Even the Demons Believe.

4:03:56 SPEAKER_12: I would like to tell you that I'm doing chapter 7 right now.

4:03:59 SPEAKER_12: It's the second time I have read the book, Even the Demons Believe.

4:04:03 SPEAKER_12: And I think it's an impacting book.

4:04:05 SPEAKER_12: Literally impacting.

4:04:07 SPEAKER_12: Let us say the first time you read it, you get shocked, outraged, and maybe sort of mad at the author.

4:04:13 SPEAKER_12: However, a second reading makes you go deep into your own spiritual life and church experiences.

4:04:19 SPEAKER_12: I presume it has gotten people exactly where Pastor Williams wanted them to be.

4:04:24 SPEAKER_12: Cornered and faced off by their own attitude towards the Almighty.

4:04:32 SPEAKER_12: If you are interested in the full and complete gospel message before becoming a disciple of Jesus, then the book Even the Demons Believe might prove helpful.

4:04:43 SPEAKER_12: As the angel told the Apostle Peter in Acts 5 20, go stand in the temple courts, he said, and tell the people the full message of this new life.

4:04:55 SPEAKER_12: The book Even the Demons Believe will also guide those claiming the name Christian to test themselves.

4:05:01 SPEAKER_12: As the Apostle Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 13 5, examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith.

4:05:08 SPEAKER_12: Test yourselves.

4:05:10 SPEAKER_12: Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you?

4:05:13 SPEAKER_12: Unless, of course, you fail the test.

4:05:18 SPEAKER_19: The Justice and Legal segment on the Consider Podcast is only concerned with calling all individuals to repentance.

4:05:23 SPEAKER_19: No matter which side of the bar one is on, the demand is for repentance in accordance with Amos 524.

4:05:29 SPEAKER_19: Let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream.

4:05:32 SPEAKER_19: Nothing discussed should be considered legal advice.

4:05:35 SPEAKER_19: Want legal advice?

4:05:36 SPEAKER_19: Pay a lawyer.

4:05:36 SPEAKER_19: Want justice?

4:05:37 SPEAKER_19: Pray to the holy God.

4:05:38 SPEAKER_19: As the living God recorded in Deuteronomy 16.20, all must follow justice and justice alone.

4:05:44 SPEAKER_19: The listener assumes all responsibility for their actions or refusal to act in accordance with justice and justice alone.

4:05:50 SPEAKER_19: Because the legal system hides their corrupt deeds in darkness, any discussion is fraught with inadequate information.

4:05:55 SPEAKER_19: The listener should keep in mind that the news media only communicates what sells.

4:05:59 SPEAKER_19: Finally, make note that the vast majority of what is called legal is in fact not lawful.

4:06:03 SPEAKER_19: The Consider Podcast, examining today's wisdom, madness, and folly.

4:06:07 SPEAKER_19: www.consider.info.

4:06:09 SPEAKER_20: This has been the Consider Podcast with your hosts, Timothy and Jacob, where the whole gospel message has been used to examine today's wisdom, folly, and madness.

4:06:19 SPEAKER_20: For more information, drop by www.consider.info.

4:06:24 SPEAKER_20: The Consider Podcast, examining today's wisdom, folly, and madness with the whole gospel.

4:06:45 SPEAKER_19: The Justice and Legal segment on the Consider Podcast is only concerned with calling all individuals to repentance.

4:06:50 SPEAKER_19: No matter which side of the bar one is on, the demand is for repentance in accordance with Amos 524.

4:06:55 SPEAKER_19: Let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream.

4:06:59 SPEAKER_19: Nothing discussed should be considered legal advice.

4:07:02 SPEAKER_19: Want legal advice?

4:07:03 SPEAKER_19: Pay a lawyer.

4:07:03 SPEAKER_19: Want justice?

4:07:04 SPEAKER_19: Pray to the holy God.

4:07:05 SPEAKER_19: As the living God recorded in Deuteronomy 16.20, all must follow justice and justice alone.

4:07:11 SPEAKER_19: The listener assumes all responsibility for their actions or refusal to act in accordance with justice and justice alone.

4:07:17 SPEAKER_19: Because the legal system hides their corrupt deeds in darkness, any discussion is fraught with inadequate information.

4:07:22 SPEAKER_19: The listener should keep in mind that the news media only communicates what sells.

4:07:26 SPEAKER_19: Finally, make note that the vast majority of what is called legal is in fact not lawful.

4:07:30 SPEAKER_19: The Consider Podcast, examining today's wisdom, madness, and folly.

4:07:34 SPEAKER_19: www.consider.info.

4:07:37 Timothy: Let us continue to consider Jan's dog and pony show called jury duty testimony.

4:07:44 SPEAKER_20: Welcome to the Consider Podcast, where the whole gospel message is used to examine today's wisdom, folly, and madness.

4:07:52 SPEAKER_20: Acts 520.

4:07:54 SPEAKER_20: Go, stand, and speak to the people in the temple the whole message of this life.

4:07:59 SPEAKER_20: Join the hosts Timothy and Jacob as they pick up their cross to follow Jesus, as we pray that God enlightens the mind, according to verse 25 of Ecclesiastes chapter 7.

4:08:11 SPEAKER_20: So, I turned my mind to understand, to investigate and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things, and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly.

4:08:22 SPEAKER_20: Ecclesiastes 7 25.

4:08:25 SPEAKER_20: The Consider Podcast, examining today's wisdom, folly, and madness with the whole gospel.info.

4:08:36 Timothy: How's it going, Jacob?

4:08:38 Timothy: It's going to Paris, France.

4:08:40 Jacob: I'm not in Paris, France.

4:08:42 Timothy: I know you're not.

4:08:42 Timothy: I was just asking, though, how it's going in Paris, France.

4:08:45 Timothy: I don't know.

4:08:46 Timothy: So it's uh it's 52 degrees right now.

4:08:48 Timothy: Feels like 42.

4:08:50 Timothy: It's a little bit foggy, and they're going to have some cloud and rain, possibly later today, around 6 p.m.

4:08:56 Timothy: Well, I don't know if that's good or bad.

4:08:58 Timothy: You'd have to ask a French person.

4:08:59 Timothy: Well, I was just seeing if I could catch you off guard a little bit.

Exasperation Culture And Pay To Stay

4:09:02 Timothy: All right, let's go to Ephesians chapter six, verse four.

4:09:09 Timothy: Because we're talking about the judicial system, our laws, our government, our nation.

4:09:14 Timothy: Really, we're talking about home.

4:09:17 Timothy: And that's why in scripture there's so much talk about holiness in the household, because what's in the household gets reflected out in society.

4:09:26 Timothy: And all of this corruption that we see going on is just a reflection of what's in the home.

4:09:31 Timothy: Because if homes didn't allow these things to go on, they wouldn't go on.

4:09:35 Timothy: I realize to a certain degree we're kind of powerless to change things, but not if the vast majority of people had a basic moral foundation and were a little bit beyond just their self-centeredness.

4:09:47 Timothy: Think I'm correct on that, Jacob?

4:09:49 Timothy: Yes.

4:09:49 Timothy: Well, here's my main point.

4:09:51 Jacob: Go ahead and read Ephesians 6 4.

4:09:53 Jacob: Fathers, do not exasperate your children.

4:09:56 Jacob: Instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

4:10:00 Timothy: I mean, Hollywood likes to portray almost every Christian, every religious person as a fanatic without joy, you know, just dark, brooding type individual.

4:10:10 Timothy: But that's not the majority of Christianity.

4:10:13 Timothy: The majority of those who are seeking God or have some religious foundation in the house is actually happier than most other homes or neighbors.

4:10:21 Timothy: My point being here in this scripture, scripture is very clear.

4:10:24 Timothy: Fathers, and again, notice who's doing the leading here.

4:10:26 Timothy: Does he say mothers?

4:10:28 Jacob: No.

4:10:28 Timothy: He says fathers.

4:10:29 Timothy: Do not exasperate your children, which means when you pile on a bunch of rules and legalism or you hold to things, there's not the human element or the human touch.

4:10:39 Timothy: You the child will just eventually give up.

4:10:42 Timothy: We've done the same thing to our prisons, to really everybody in the nation.

4:10:46 Timothy: We've hinted at this before and talked about before how don't you just kind of give up.

4:10:51 Timothy: It's like I can't keep track of all the laws.

4:10:54 Timothy: In order for, you know, you get pulled over for a speeding ticket.

4:10:56 Timothy: You you literally have to be a mini lawyer, or they'll just pounce on you.

4:11:01 Timothy: Whether you're guilty or innocent or not, we are reduced down to an exasperation level.

4:11:07 Timothy: And so much of the violence that's in America, so much of the corruption that is going on, the hostility, people not getting along, while prosecutors like to come along and say, Oh, we're sending a message, we're about law and order, nah, nah, nah.

4:11:20 Timothy: You've just exasperated everybody to the point that they give up.

4:11:23 Timothy: You are responsible for a great deal of the anger and the frustration that is happening.

4:11:30 Timothy: Amen to that, Jacob.

4:11:31 Timothy: Amen.

4:11:32 Timothy: Well, let's play this next clip and remember that we looked at him in the last episode where he talks about Florida.

4:11:37 Timothy: Now, you remember a lot of people are flocking to Florida.

4:11:40 Timothy: I guess that would be a new license plate.

4:11:42 Timothy: Flock to Florida.

4:11:45 Timothy: Let's remember who now who's the governor again, Ron DeSentes.

4:11:50 Timothy: Yeah, DeSentes.

4:11:51 Timothy: He served at Ganamo Bay, which was illegal, unconstitutional, immoral.

4:11:58 Timothy: What he was willing to do down there, he will do to the rest of us.

4:12:02 Timothy: So people do not fall for the same delusion, the same lie over and over again that somehow we want this law and order.

4:12:09 Timothy: No, we want justice and justice alone because he's going to become more and more oppressive as time goes on.

4:12:16 Timothy: Go ahead and play what uh that that video, what he has to talk about.

4:12:20 SPEAKER_14: So Florida has decided that they are going to start charging inmates$50 a day for every single day that they're locked up.

4:12:27 SPEAKER_14: Not only are they doing this to people who are currently incarcerated, they're going retroactive with this.

4:12:33 SPEAKER_14: There are people that served sentences and have been out for like 10 years who are now getting bills that are gonna take their license away from them so they can't even drive to and from work anymore for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

4:12:45 SPEAKER_14: Now, we didn't have no$50 a day bills when I was locked up in the state of Florida, but we did have a$3 a day pay to stay.

4:12:53 SPEAKER_14: People who have done their time and paid their debt to society already have a much harder time getting re-acclimated back into the community in a positive way because of things like their criminal record.

4:13:04 SPEAKER_14: Creating financial obstructions for them like this that can do things like take their ability to have a driver's license away and to be able to do the basic things they need to support themselves is absolutely unconscionable.

4:13:15 Timothy: I really can't say it any better than he did.

4:13:18 Timothy: Can you, Jagu?

4:13:19 Jacob: It's crazy that apparently they already had this.

4:13:22 Jacob: I didn't know.

4:13:23 Jacob: He said when he was in it was a three dollars a day.

4:13:26 Jacob: Mm-hmm.

4:13:27 Jacob: That's what he said.

4:13:28 Jacob: I didn't know I didn't know most prisons were charging you unless you were rich.

4:13:31 Jacob: If you were at like the rich person's prison and there's is such a thing.

4:13:35 Jacob: The vengeance never stops.

4:13:36 Timothy: In fact, uh, well, I don't want to go into personal aspects, but I know individuals in prison that they have two different funds.

4:13:43 Timothy: One goes to the so-called victim, and it just never ends.

4:13:47 Timothy: It's one thing after another.

4:13:48 Timothy: I knew of somebody else who was getting released on parole, and on the way out, all the guards know, everybody knows.

4:13:54 Timothy: I mean, it was a friendly conversation.

4:13:56 Timothy: They go, We'll see you again, because the rules are so tight there's no way that you can keep them all.

4:14:01 Timothy: And it's just being the same thing in our society.

4:14:04 Timothy: If they want to charge us for something, there's enough laws to cover anything and everything, even the parts that a law that allows them to make up what they want to make up in order to charge you.

4:14:12 SPEAKER_10: Yeah.

4:14:13 Timothy: It's an exasperation.

4:14:15 Timothy: Uh family court is the worst.

4:14:16 Timothy: We often see in the news, you know, so-and-so shot somebody or somebody, you know, did their kids in because of family court.

4:14:23 Timothy: And I always blame either the father or the mother who actually did the killing.

4:14:27 Timothy: Nobody ever bothers to look at the court and say, are they driving these people to a no-end situation?

4:14:33 Timothy: And we know that's what's going on.

4:14:35 Timothy: The destruction of the family is happening both within and without.

4:14:38 Timothy: And so we see all of this going on.

4:14:40 Timothy: Of course, this is absurd.

4:14:41 Timothy: You shouldn't even be paying$3 a day.

4:14:43 Timothy: That's all how it all starts.

4:14:44 Timothy: It starts with, well, why don't you donate your jury fund to the local kids' court or whatever's going on?

4:14:51 Timothy: They always come along with this noble stuff, and then they keep grinding and grinding and grinding until everybody's just exasperated.

4:14:58 Timothy: Uh you know, I think America is one of the highest rates of people in prison.

4:15:04 Timothy: Incarceration, yeah.

4:15:05 Timothy: I think it's like one of the highest.

4:15:06 Timothy: Exactly.

4:15:06 Timothy: Well, there's too much money involved.

4:15:08 Timothy: We mass produce cars and we mass produce prisoners.

4:15:10 Timothy: It's really that simple.

4:15:12 Timothy: Well, let's keep pressing on.

4:15:13 Timothy: And because of this, of course, we're getting into our whole nation is crumbling under a weight of anxiety and destruction toward each other.

4:15:23 Timothy: Then you get the mental illness drugs, people can't find any peace whatsoever.

4:15:27 Timothy: There's no hope.

4:15:28 Timothy: The the real concerning stuff is hearing and hearing the young people today going, well, there's no hope.

4:15:33 Timothy: I'm never going to retire, I'm never going to own a home.

4:15:36 Timothy: There's just a sense that it is hopelessness.

4:15:38 Timothy: It comes from our prosecutors, it comes from our prisons, it comes from the legal system, it comes from our legislatures.

4:15:45 Timothy: They're the one putting us in this hopeless situation.

4:15:48 Timothy: So it's no wonder when you go in for jury duty, they're going to manipulate with all their power and as we saw on our last podcast, intimidate people to make sure they go along with their corruptions.

4:16:00 Timothy: And we're going to see here in a moment, let's go to Ephesians 4.17, and we're going to see a little bit of why this is happening.

4:16:06 Timothy: Jacob, as we head to Ephesians 4.17, go ahead and play that next clip.

4:16:10 Timothy: And it's really about the phenomenon or the events that are taking place.

4:16:13 Timothy: Our prisons are starting to bubble over with a lot of riots and corruption, and it's because of the hopelessness that the prosecutors and judges and individuals and legislators are placing upon everybody in America.

4:16:30 Timothy: Go ahead and play that.

4:16:32 SPEAKER_14: Two out of three of the county jails in San Francisco went on lockdown this weekend because of brutal staff assaults, beatings, and stabbings.

4:16:39 SPEAKER_14: Like they just full stop, shut down everything, put everyone in their cells, locked them in and said enough.

4:16:46 SPEAKER_14: And now they're demanding that the National Guard come in and take over and handle this business.

4:16:51 SPEAKER_14: And I know, I know that's wild, and everybody's gonna be like, well, that's California for you, but check out what Florida's been doing.

4:16:57 SPEAKER_14: The state of Florida has been using the National Guard to supplement their lack of correctional officers since late 2022.

4:17:04 SPEAKER_14: And Alabama state prisons are so understaffed and it's become so dangerous that people are calling for the feds to come in and take them over.

4:17:12 SPEAKER_14: But really, this is a nationwide problem.

4:17:15 SPEAKER_14: People don't want to work in prisons because being in prison sucks.

4:17:19 SPEAKER_14: Whether you're an inmate or whether you're staffed, you're still in a prison.

4:17:23 SPEAKER_14: They're dangerous, they're dirty, they're inhumane, and it's soul crushing to be inside of there.

4:17:28 SPEAKER_14: Would you want to work in a prison?

4:17:31 Timothy: You know, it's hard to add to what he's saying.

4:17:34 Timothy: We're saying it maybe in a more eloquent fashion, although he's he's very bottom line, aside from the language, he he's got it down.

4:17:41 Timothy: You could just take that, so to speak, to the bank and run.

4:17:45 Timothy: We are destroying ourselves, and it's amazing to me that the prosecutors are getting no blame.

4:17:52 Timothy: The judges are getting no blame, except for, you know, the foolish conservative Christians who want law and order and more and more laws, and they'll they'll think it's a great thing.

4:18:01 Timothy: Oh, let's bring in the National Guard in, let's bring the army in.

4:18:05 Timothy: Don't we understand that that kind of hopeless will be turned back upon those people that are interested in law and order?

4:18:13 Timothy: We need justice and justice alone, not this crushing, as he put it, soul crushing type environment that's both now outside the prison and certainly inside the prison.

4:18:25 Timothy: Jacob, go ahead and start reading Ephesians 4 17, and I'll do my usual interrupt probably.

4:18:31 Timothy: Go all the way down to verse 20.

4:18:33 Jacob: So I tell you this and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, and the futility of their thinking.

4:18:42 Timothy: Yeah, verse 17, that's actually futility.

4:18:45 Timothy: Futility.

4:18:45 Timothy: Futility of their thinking, and that's exactly what I just said.

4:18:48 Timothy: So I tell you this and insist on it in the Lord.

4:18:51 Timothy: There needs to be some people in the pulpit preachers, hopefully.

4:18:55 Timothy: Preachers in the pulpit actually saying, okay, I'm going to insist right now that you stop holding up the police and the prosecutors and the judges and the legislatures, all that any type of quality.

4:19:06 Timothy: They are destroying us.

4:19:07 Timothy: I don't mean to hate them or they we're going to see why they need to come to Jesus Christ.

4:19:12 Timothy: They need to repent.

4:19:13 Timothy: Mark Larson needs to repent.

4:19:15 Timothy: He's darkened in his understanding.

4:19:16 Timothy: Judge Laurie K.

4:19:17 Timothy: Smith, who in complete darkness and really stupidity allowed a Stalinistic kind of I you can't even really call it a trial.

4:19:28 Timothy: Excuse my French, but it's just a bitch session where everybody just was allowed to, invited to, come in, whine, complain, lie, exaggerate, and we'll tack on this crime over here.

4:19:37 Timothy: And you can have vengeance or justice by sending them to prison.

4:19:40 Timothy: That's all that really happened.

4:19:41 Timothy: There was no evidence, no nothing.

4:19:43 Timothy: It was clearly a Stalinistic style of dark, dark oppression.

4:19:50 Timothy: You have to start insisting, no longer have this feudal kind of thinking.

4:19:55 Timothy: We need to be talking about jury duty.

4:19:57 Timothy: That's really our last avenue to bring anything in.

4:20:00 Timothy: And we saw yesterday, just how or last podcast how tough that is.

4:20:04 Timothy: Look at verse 18.

4:20:05 Timothy: They are darkened.

4:20:06 Timothy: Mark Larson is darkened.

4:20:08 Timothy: Judge Laurie K.

4:20:09 Timothy: Smith is darkened.

4:20:09 Timothy: Judge Brian Gain is darkened.

4:20:12 Timothy: They're darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is due to them.

4:20:19 Timothy: Now we're not just going to stop there.

4:20:21 Timothy: Why are they ignorant?

4:20:22 Timothy: Why are they dark?

4:20:23 Timothy: Why is their moral compass totally dark and there's no light?

4:20:27 Timothy: It's due to the hardening of their hearts.

4:20:30 Timothy: They don't want to repent.

4:20:31 Timothy: They don't want to be wrong.

4:20:32 Timothy: They want their power.

4:20:33 Timothy: Just as we heard him say in this video, it's all about notching up.

4:20:37 Timothy: These prosecutors, please understand, these prosecutors do not care if you're guilty or not, or innocent or not.

4:20:43 Timothy: They don't care.

4:20:44 Timothy: Either way, they don't care.

4:20:45 Timothy: You are just a rung on a ladder, and they can move up in their career and they can pat themselves on the back and they can hang out with the judges and they go to the country clubs, and they can do what their little club, really, if if I wasn't so adverse to using the word cult, they could do what their little cult has in mind and keep all of us in line and make themselves feel better.

4:21:04 Timothy: They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.

4:21:16 Timothy: Having lost all sensitivity.

4:21:18 Timothy: Verse 19 of Ephesians 4, having lost all sensitivity.

4:21:21 Timothy: Jacob, I know you can testify with me.

4:21:23 Timothy: Haven't they lost all sensitivity?

4:21:25 Timothy: There's no sense of justice.

4:21:27 Timothy: No, none.

4:21:28 Timothy: No sense of, well, let's look into this.

4:21:30 Timothy: Prove me wrong.

4:21:32 Timothy: None of them have any concern.

4:21:34 Timothy: They're not even sensitive to it.

4:21:35 Timothy: I, you know, it's hard for us to imagine.

4:21:37 Timothy: I don't think they lose sleep over it.

4:21:38 Timothy: I don't think it's really that it's them it's their glory.

4:21:41 Timothy: We might be an irritant every once in a while, but you know, there's no sensitivity if they were, you know, like Judge Brian Gain.

4:21:50 Timothy: He would come out of retirement and begin to make this right.

4:21:53 Timothy: But there's no sensitivity to it.

4:21:54 Timothy: You you'd literally, as he said, you'd have to have millions of dollars.

4:21:58 Timothy: I remember one of the um pol uh what am I trying to say, Christian newspaper people, news people, they called to talk to me.

4:22:06 Timothy: They've been all worked up, so they were already concluded about whatever.

4:22:09 Timothy: And as I came back to them, I go, does it really make any difference what I say?

4:22:12 Timothy: No, because they're just going to repeat whatever it is they want to pre uh print.

4:22:17 Timothy: Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality.

4:22:22 Timothy: It just feels good.

4:22:23 Timothy: We were literally told by King County prosecutors when we presented the evidence, like, no, there's a hate crime going on, this that none of this adds up, nothing of it's there.

4:22:32 Timothy: And literally, the response back was, well, we feel like it's right.

4:22:38 Timothy: It feels right to prosecute.

4:22:40 Timothy: It's all about feelings.

4:22:42 Timothy: Do you understand what they're saying?

4:22:44 Timothy: A prosecutor has to move the feelings of a jury pool, correct?

4:22:49 Timothy: Correct.

4:22:50 Timothy: So they're attuned, prosecutors and judges are attuned to how can I motivate the feelings of the jury, not how to present facts, not pursuing truth.

4:22:59 Timothy: So when that prosecutor, and really it was a group of prosecutors, literally turned and said, Well, it feels right to do, all they're really telling me is, and what the truth is, we can fool a jury on this.

4:23:12 Timothy: We don't really care if it's right or wrong, or there's any evidence one way or another.

4:23:16 Timothy: We have the feeling, therefore we can transfer that feeling and manipulate a jury pool.

4:23:21 Timothy: It was correct, he was correct, but it had nothing to do with any type of rationale or legalities or the truth or righteousness, and certainly not justice.

4:23:30 Timothy: It says, and I'll let you read Ephesians 4 19 and go ahead and finish that, Jacob.

4:23:35 Jacob: Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity with a continual lust for more.

4:23:46 Timothy: So we go from three dollars in prison to what did he financially say?

4:23:52 Timothy: And not only that, they add insult to injury because you paid your time, you're out, you did it under the three dollar thing, you're out there putting your life together.

4:23:59 Timothy: Then they Come to you and go, well, you know what?

4:24:01 Timothy: All of that payment means nothing, and we're going to go back from the time you were arrested, now it's fifty dollars.

4:24:06 Timothy: It's a continual lust for more.

4:24:10 Timothy: More laws, more perversion, more power for the prosecutor.

4:24:13 Timothy: That's why I said if you're going to reform anything, don't call the prosecutors in to the committee meetings.

4:24:18 Timothy: What are they going to tell you?

4:24:19 Timothy: We need more power, we need more money, we need more people, we need better laws, yada, yada, yaddy.

4:24:25 Timothy: They're going to say the same thing over and over again because it's a lust.

4:24:30 Timothy: And when we're consumed by lust, we just keep moving forward whether it makes sense or not.

4:24:36 Timothy: Right?

4:24:36 SPEAKER_13: Correct.

4:24:38 Timothy: Drugs would be a classic example.

4:24:40 Timothy: Eventually, if somebody's in drugs long enough, all reason just kind of dissipates.

4:24:44 Timothy: You start doing things you know why that's not rational.

4:24:47 Timothy: Why would you do that?

4:24:48 Timothy: That's not even logical.

4:24:49 Timothy: That's you know, because our brains get affected.

4:24:51 Timothy: When these prosecutors, and I'm saying all prosecutors, you prove to me one that is not impure.

4:24:57 Timothy: Prove to me one that is not just full of lust and pride and arrogance.

4:25:02 Timothy: Show me one.

4:25:03 Timothy: Call me.

4:25:04 Timothy: So far there's been none, and for every one there might be, the rest are doomed.

4:25:09 Timothy: Ephesians 4 20.

4:25:11 Timothy: You, however, did not come to know Christ that way.

4:25:14 Timothy: The problem is, and of course, in the church, is people did to go to come to try Christ that way.

4:25:20 Timothy: In other words, don't worry about sin.

4:25:22 Timothy: You can be impure.

4:25:23 Timothy: This is justified.

4:25:25 Timothy: There's no sensitivity to what sin is.

4:25:28 Timothy: But Paul preached to Jesus, it was real.

4:25:31 Timothy: Jesus says, Come out of the impurity.

4:25:34 Timothy: Start having sensitivity.

4:25:36 Timothy: Come out of your darkness and begin to have the light and the truth of Jesus.

4:25:41 Timothy: Anything on that, Jacob?

4:25:42 Timothy: No.

4:25:43 Timothy: Alright.

4:25:44 Timothy: Remember last in our last uh podcast we talked about, or really Jan gave the testimony, that she was brought into a room and you got the judge and the prosecutor and the defense attorney there, and they wanted to play a little encounter game.

4:25:59 Timothy: You'd have thought you were, you know, out in the desert somewhere and the feel-good stuff.

4:26:04 Timothy: And they were gonna bring in Dr.

4:26:06 Timothy: Phil, right?

4:26:07 Timothy: Mm-hmm and uh Oprah Winfrey, right?

4:26:10 Jacob: The Oprah Dr.

4:26:11 Jacob: Phil method.

4:26:12 Timothy: I don't ever think I get that name right.

4:26:14 Timothy: I'm not too worried about it.

4:26:16 Timothy: All right, so let's play Dr.

4:26:18 Timothy: Phil.

4:26:18 Timothy: What was do you remember the name of the judge that she was talking about?

4:26:21 Timothy: I forgot.

4:26:22 Jacob: Yeah, it was Judge Gaines.

4:26:23 Timothy: Oh, yeah, that's right.

4:26:24 Timothy: Judge uh Brian Gain.

4:26:26 Timothy: All right.

4:26:26 Timothy: Well, here you go.

4:26:27 Timothy: Let's play Dr.

4:26:28 Timothy: Phil.

4:26:28 Timothy: You want to do Dr.

4:26:29 Timothy: Phil?

4:26:30 Timothy: I'll do Dr.

4:26:30 Timothy: Phil, all right.

4:26:31 Timothy: Go ahead, Jacob.

4:26:32 Timothy: Play this next clip about Dr.

4:26:35 Timothy: Phil.

4:26:35 Timothy: Let's introduce Dr.

4:26:36 Timothy: Phil into Seattle, King County, Washington State, prosecutor's office, and legislators.

4:26:42 Timothy: Shall we do that, Jacob?

4:26:43 Timothy: Sure.

4:26:44 Timothy: They asked for it, so let's bring it in.

4:26:46 Timothy: I'd wheel in my little projector and put it up on the screen and say, okay, judge and prosecutor, let's talk about Dr.

4:26:53 Timothy: Phil.

4:26:53 Timothy: I'm not too thrilled about O for.

4:26:55 Timothy: I don't really care about what air freshener I use in my living room.

4:26:58 Timothy: However, uh, let's pick and choose some of the real hard facts that Dr.

4:27:03 Timothy: Phil presents.

4:27:04 Timothy: Because, you know, really my concern with Dr.

4:27:06 Timothy: Phil is the production quality of psychology.

4:27:10 Timothy: He's putting people's problems out there in a mass market situation.

4:27:15 Timothy: That's the unhealthy part.

4:27:17 Timothy: You notice the judge didn't say Jordan Peterson.

4:27:19 Timothy: No.

4:27:20 Timothy: Let's do it, Jordan Peterson here.

4:27:21 Timothy: Let's get down to the facts.

4:27:22 Timothy: Let's strip away all the emotions, and let's get down to Jordan Peterson here, and let's look at the science.

4:27:28 Timothy: Let's look at reality.

4:27:29 Timothy: He didn't say that, did he?

4:27:30 Jacob: Well, uh Jordan Jordan Peterson wasn't popular then, but uh no, he wouldn't have used him anyways.

4:27:35 Timothy: All right, you win that defense round.

4:27:37 Timothy: Uh he's retired anyway.

4:27:38 Timothy: Uh please give me a call.

4:27:40 Timothy: Let's look at the job.

4:27:40 Jacob: Yeah, he's retired.

4:27:41 Jacob: This judge, yeah.

4:27:42 Jacob: Brian Gaines, retired.

4:27:43 Timothy: Retired.

4:27:44 Timothy: Retired.

4:27:44 Timothy: All right, enough of my uh yammering.

4:27:46 Timothy: Let's go ahead with uh the Dr.

4:27:48 Timothy: Phil.

Medical Transition Whistleblower On Dr Phil

4:27:50 SPEAKER_17: The hospital was secretly performing these procedures on children as young as 11.

4:27:55 SPEAKER_00: I will go through the wrong puberty, making permanent changes to me that I do not want.

4:28:03 SPEAKER_21: Quote unquote, just gender-affirming care to be investigated as child abuse.

4:28:07 SPEAKER_21: The most important hormonal process in the development of children into adults is stomping.

4:28:13 SPEAKER_18: Doctors are acting like they're God.

4:28:15 SPEAKER_18: We were lying to parents.

4:28:16 SPEAKER_21: They had said they would no longer provide hormone-related interventions for transgender kids.

4:28:21 SPEAKER_21: Did they stop?

4:28:22 SPEAKER_21: They did not.

4:28:23 SPEAKER_21: They were implanting these drug delivery devices in children as young as 11, 12, 13 years old.

4:28:30 SPEAKER_21: A ban on beacon.

4:28:32 SPEAKER_18: I was working in a pediatric gender center for four and a half years, primarily responsible for patient intakes.

4:28:39 SPEAKER_18: The center followed this message that transition would solve everything, that it would solve a child's mental health problems.

4:28:48 SPEAKER_18: There were very few written protocols or guidelines.

4:28:52 SPEAKER_18: One of the providers even said we were flying the plane as we built it.

4:28:56 SPEAKER_18: Doctors are acting like they're God when it comes to medically transitioning children.

4:29:02 SPEAKER_18: Children could identify themselves as transgender, see a therapist for one visit, see our endocrinologist for one visit, and end up with hormones that would impact and change their bodies for their lifetime.

4:29:16 SPEAKER_18: These were identities that were still shifting and changing, but the treatments were irreversible and permanent.

4:29:23 SPEAKER_18: I saw a young person who was begging to have their breasts put back on after having surgery.

4:29:31 SPEAKER_18: We were encouraged not to make a big deal out of it and definitely not to tell other families.

4:29:40 SPEAKER_18: I couldn't continue to be silent on it.

4:29:50 SPEAKER_18: I was told I could no longer raise concerns or even use the phrase, I have concerns about a patient.

4:29:57 SPEAKER_18: I have no trust in this industry, medically transitioning minors anymore.

4:30:04 SPEAKER_17: Well, Jamie, thank you for being here.

4:30:05 SPEAKER_18: Thank you for having me.

4:30:07 SPEAKER_17: You describe yourself as a queer woman married to a transgender man.

4:30:12 SPEAKER_18: Yes.

4:30:13 SPEAKER_17: And you're a member of the LGBTQ community, and you went there to do something good, something positive at this clinic in St.

4:30:24 SPEAKER_17: Louis.

4:30:24 SPEAKER_17: What changed your mind?

4:30:27 SPEAKER_18: A number of things.

4:30:29 SPEAKER_18: We started to see patients who were experiencing very significant medical harms, being rushed to the emergency room with lacerations requiring stitches.

4:30:43 SPEAKER_18: We had patients contact us who were begging to have the body parts put back on within months of having surgeries.

4:30:51 SPEAKER_18: And the thing that kept happening is every time I would raise concerns and ask about the protocols and ask about the guidelines, this is just how the industry works.

4:31:03 SPEAKER_18: If a child says they're trans, there's no questioning it.

4:31:07 SPEAKER_18: We just say, Yep, you're trans.

4:31:09 SPEAKER_18: What would you like?

4:31:10 SPEAKER_17: You're telling me that a 12 or 13-year-old who can't decide which pajamas to wear can come in and say, I've decided that I want a transition.

4:31:22 SPEAKER_17: And with no more than a couple of hours or two visits, not even a couple of hours, two visits, they say, okay, start taking this, start doing this.

4:31:36 SPEAKER_17: Which alters their biochemistry in a way that you can't come back from.

4:31:42 SPEAKER_18: Correct.

4:31:43 SPEAKER_17: And y you say you saw dramatic increases in teenage girls that had no previous history of gender distress, and they suddenly declared themselves transgender and demanded immediate testosterone blockers.

4:31:58 SPEAKER_18: Yeah.

4:31:59 SPEAKER_18: When I started, um so I was there for four and a half years.

4:32:01 SPEAKER_18: When I started, I maybe would have five to ten new incoming patients a month.

4:32:07 SPEAKER_18: By the time I left, it was close to 50 every single month.

4:32:12 SPEAKER_18: And my background is in clinical research.

4:32:14 SPEAKER_18: And so I started looking at the data.

4:32:17 SPEAKER_18: I wanted to know what the numbers told me.

4:32:19 SPEAKER_18: And towards the end of my tenure, 73% of the new patients coming to us were girls who were in their teen years.

4:32:28 SPEAKER_18: So in that really vulnerable age of like 13 to 16, where they are just exposed to so many social pressures and they're so empathetic to what's going on around them, too, that they really pick up on what's going on in their peer group.

4:32:44 SPEAKER_18: We had clusters where it would be a handful of one whole high school classroom would come in all trans identified.

4:32:54 SPEAKER_17: Historically, this typically would be males.

4:32:57 SPEAKER_17: Yeah.

4:32:58 SPEAKER_17: And you would have a female how often?

4:33:01 SPEAKER_18: Oh, very rare.

4:33:03 SPEAKER_18: And also the ages were different.

4:33:05 SPEAKER_18: So it would would usually be younger boys who seemed very feminine or had feminine traits to their family, and their families would seek care, trying to understand what was going on for their young male child.

4:33:19 SPEAKER_18: This was never something that would start an adolescence.

4:33:24 SPEAKER_18: And these girls were also learning on TikTok, Instagram, they would come in and they would almost have the exact same storyline too.

4:33:34 SPEAKER_18: Like they learned what to say from a video to explain, oh no, really, I've felt this way from early childhood.

4:33:41 SPEAKER_18: But a lot of their parents couldn't remember anything like that.

4:33:44 SPEAKER_18: And part of what's going on right now is that if you question this at all, you are immediately called transphobic, you're immediately called homophobic, you're immediately considered a bigot, and it's just not scientific reality.

4:33:59 Timothy: Take a breath there, right, Jacob?

4:34:02 Timothy: Scientific reality.

4:34:03 Timothy: We're gonna have to actually visit this again.

4:34:05 Timothy: I think maybe next up after we finish this, we need to start looking at Sodom and Gomorrah and explain what's going on.

4:34:12 Timothy: Several takes here real fast.

4:34:14 Timothy: Number one, as kids grow up, they go through an orientation of their sexuality.

4:34:21 Timothy: And it can be manipulated, corrupted by the school system, by laws, by society.

4:34:27 Timothy: You also notice that girls are easily manipulated through a certain age.

4:34:32 Timothy: And we know from experience if a cop wanted to take an impressionable teenage girl and put her in a room and script out accusations and plant things in her head.

4:34:42 Timothy: What do you think, Jacob?

4:34:43 Timothy: Is that like easier done than not done?

4:34:45 Timothy: Easier done.

4:34:46 Timothy: Easier done.

4:34:47 Timothy: Congratulations.

4:34:48 Timothy: City of Enum Claw Detective Grant McCall.

4:34:52 Timothy: Now, not only is this perversion, see the problem is this one perversion leads to another perversion.

4:34:57 Timothy: That's what we just saw in Ephesians.

4:34:59 Timothy: They've lost sensitivity, the impurity continues to grow, the less you you realize they I think she said she was part of the queer organization.

4:35:07 Jacob: Yeah, that was weird anyway.

4:35:09 Jacob: She's queer with a trans man.

4:35:12 Jacob: And she's calling the supposed stuff out for kids.

4:35:16 Jacob: Correct.

4:35:16 Jacob: So she's she's a he said she's a member of the LGBTQ community.

4:35:21 Jacob: So she's one of them.

4:35:23 Timothy: Correct.

4:35:24 Timothy: What she doesn't realize because she's darkened in her understanding, and we can pray for a repentance, is one perversion always leads to another perversion.

4:35:31 Timothy: Sure, yeah.

4:35:31 Timothy: It never stops.

4:35:32 Timothy: You charge whether it's legal perversion, you charge an inmate three dollars a day, which okay, that's absurd.

4:35:38 Timothy: Then it goes to$15, and then eventually whatever, I don't know.

4:35:42 Timothy: Then your family has to I don't want to give them any ideas.

4:35:44 Timothy: Well, especially when it comes to sexual sexuality, in the beginning of this thing, they they they clearly said, and I think we all understand, those of us who have a little bit of morals left inside of ourselves, that this is child abuse.

4:35:57 Timothy: Yeah, exactly.

4:35:58 Timothy: If this had happened 20 years ago, and you s if I was I'm not gonna put me in this picture, if somebody was, you know, attempting to change the gender and do the surgery, there'd be m Hollywood black and white movies about how you know that person was destroyed and so on.

4:36:13 Timothy: But now it's it's put into law.

4:36:15 Timothy: Go ahead and play this next clip because Senator Mark Olias introduced a bill in Washington State, number 5559, that grooms your children to come in and participate in this corruption of their sexuality.

State Power Over Children And Families

4:36:32 Timothy: This is a it should be where are the all the judges and the prosecutors in Washington State not arresting him and bringing him up on child abuse charges?

4:36:40 Timothy: And every Democrat or every person that actually supported this bill.

4:36:44 Timothy: This is clearly child abuse.

4:36:47 Timothy: Go ahead and play it.

4:36:48 SPEAKER_04: Olympia, Washington State Senate Bill 5599, stealing children, perverting facts and the law, grooming children to rebel and bow down to Washington State, destroying mental health of children to become at risk for the benefit of the Democrats, corrupting the truth of father, mother, and family safety to fulfill Washington State's sinful lusts.

4:37:13 SPEAKER_04: Democrats, Senator Marco Leis, and conspirators steal your children to benefit themselves.

4:37:19 SPEAKER_04: The Consider Podcast, preparing for the worst.

4:37:22 SPEAKER_04: Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.

4:37:26 SPEAKER_04: Mark chapter 13, verse 12.

4:37:29 SPEAKER_04: The Consider Podcast, Ecclesiastes, chapter 1, verse 17.

4:37:33 SPEAKER_04: Examining today's wisdom, folly, and madness.

4:37:50 Timothy: To be normal, to be reasonable, whatever.

4:37:53 Timothy: They have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity with a continual lust for more.

4:38:06 Timothy: It won't stop here.

4:38:08 Timothy: If I'd have said 10 years ago, this would have happened, this would have happened.

4:38:12 Timothy: Can we not look back and see how the morals and the lust and the sensuality just continue to increase, Jacob?

4:38:17 Timothy: Yes.

4:38:17 Timothy: Okay, well, where are we going to from here?

4:38:19 Timothy: What's next?

4:38:20 Timothy: Because we know this lust isn't going to stop.

4:38:22 Timothy: That's why I said I'm a we're going to come back to this a little bit in the Sodom and Gomorrah uh situation.

4:38:27 Timothy: But what's next then?

4:38:28 Timothy: We've got this going on.

4:38:30 Timothy: Everybody's like into this massive confusion, perversion, sensuality, what feels that so you've got the gay, the queer, I mean the the letters get longer and longer and longer or the alphabet, right?

4:38:42 Timothy: So what what would be the next predictable aspect that could happen?

4:38:48 Jacob: Um oh, but so real quick, so what House Bill five nine, what exactly are they doing in this house bill?

4:38:55 Jacob: Well, you want the reality of what they're doing, or the spin and lie that they put it out with.

4:39:02 Jacob: Either way, what are what are they what are they what's happening?

4:39:05 Timothy: The spin and the lie is we're concerned for the children.

4:39:08 Timothy: Yeah.

4:39:08 Timothy: And a child that's going through confusion, you know, maybe thinks it's a girl or a boy or something in between.

4:39:14 Timothy: They can show up at social services and social services, then we'll take them in and deal with the family.

4:39:20 Jacob: Oh, I see.

4:39:20 Jacob: Okay, sure.

4:39:21 Jacob: Okay.

4:39:21 Jacob: So it's just it's just one of these uh shelter and protect any kid that says they're trans.

4:39:27 Timothy: And add the word punish anybody who disagrees or any parent that actually is a parent.

4:39:32 Timothy: You know, that's why you need strong fathers.

4:39:35 Timothy: Kids go through a normal identification of their sexuality, and that can get kind of skewed up because you got a lot of emotions going on.

4:39:43 Timothy: The father is the one that guides that family and says, no, and you may be having homosexual feelings, you may be a little more feminine, you may, but that can be undone at the early stage when the brain is being formed and the psychology is developing.

4:39:58 Timothy: Make sense?

4:39:59 Timothy: Yes.

4:39:59 Timothy: And of course, I just got myself in a whole lot of trouble.

4:40:02 Timothy: All right, so what's next?

4:40:03 Timothy: What he sponsored Senator Marchiolias, whatever, sponsored 559, which means we've taken our your kids away from the home.

4:40:11 Timothy: You're no longer important, and we will butcher your kids, genitals, and do all kinds of nasty things to them because why?

4:40:18 Timothy: Clearly got perversions in his own life.

4:40:21 Timothy: You don't introduce these things if you're a moral, upright, decent person.

4:40:24 Timothy: So what's what's on the next level here?

4:40:27 Timothy: Because they're running out of stuff to pervert.

4:40:29 Timothy: So what what would be the natural one step up?

4:40:33 Jacob: Oh, I I I don't see one natural.

4:40:36 Jacob: I wouldn't say natural step up.

4:40:38 Timothy: Yeah, you have to look at in terms of unnatural.

4:40:41 Jacob: I don't know what they're gonna do next.

4:40:42 Timothy: And that's good, Jacob.

4:40:43 Timothy: I'm glad you can't see that.

4:40:45 Timothy: You know, there's no point.

4:40:46 Timothy: Bestiology.

4:40:47 Timothy: True.

4:40:47 Timothy: Bestiology.

4:40:48 Jacob: Well, well, the next thing too out there, which is that uh uh pedophilia.

4:40:54 Timothy: Pedophilia, yeah.

4:40:55 Jacob: That's certainly in the middle.

4:40:57 Jacob: Suddenly that's okay if you're attracted to like young people.

4:41:01 Timothy: Yeah, I don't want to get into all their logic because somebody's yeah, yeah, that's never mind.

4:41:06 Jacob: It's I think that's the more that's the next one.

4:41:11 Timothy: Well, you are correct.

4:41:12 Timothy: That is, but that's already on the horizon.

4:41:14 Timothy: Uh I'm gonna point you to the one that's simmering below that one.

4:41:17 SPEAKER_10: Okay.

4:41:18 Timothy: So I consider the the whole business about the pedophile stuff and all that, short of prosecutors who look just like to get notches on their their bedposts or whatever.

4:41:26 Timothy: Um right now that's looked bad about, but it's not it's moving the other way.

4:41:32 Timothy: It's gonna be come into this everybody's has a sexuality, it's all messed up.

4:41:35 Timothy: You can have robots, I mean, it'll just go down the line.

4:41:38 Timothy: The confusion is gonna be there.

4:41:39 Timothy: So I agree with you, but I it's it's bubbling out there more than you think it is.

4:41:43 Timothy: I mean, you just look at somebody's having anal sex in the Capitol, you know, in the chamber rooms.

4:41:50 Timothy: Correct.

4:41:50 Timothy: We're I think we're kind of way past that.

4:41:53 Timothy: It's gonna work its way through the system.

4:41:54 Timothy: Sorry, this is long-winded.

4:41:56 Timothy: Next up is bestiology.

4:41:58 Timothy: It's right underneath that.

4:41:59 Timothy: I can't even pronounce it.

4:42:00 Timothy: I'm glad I can't.

4:42:01 Timothy: Go ahead and play this next sound bite.

4:42:04 Timothy: And what this is, this is from an article where bestiality is being taught in Australian schools and queer and sex classes.

4:42:12 Timothy: So it's beginning to be taught.

4:42:13 Timothy: And always you're looking for these outside cases.

4:42:16 Timothy: Don't go say, well, that's Australia or whatever.

4:42:18 Timothy: Look, this stuff is moving through as people lose all sense and all boundaries and self-discipline.

4:42:25 Timothy: Go ahead and play it, though.

Where Sexual Ideology Escalates Next

4:42:28 SPEAKER_05: Bestiality.

4:42:30 SPEAKER_05: Taught in Australian schools queer sex class by Alex Newman from Liberty News.

4:42:38 SPEAKER_05: What comes after LGBTQIA plus in the rainbow alphabet being taught to captive children?

4:42:46 SPEAKER_05: Many critics of the movement assumed it would be P for pederasty and pedophilia.

4:42:52 SPEAKER_05: And in some places it is.

4:42:54 SPEAKER_05: But in Australia, it seems that B might be the next letter added to the ever longer list of sexual and gender deviants.

4:43:04 SPEAKER_05: According to whistleblowers and outraged parents, children as young as thirteen in a South Australia school were forcibly taught about sexual activities with animals as part of a queer LGBTQIA plus sex education class.

4:43:23 SPEAKER_05: The revelations drew outrage from parents and half-hearted apologies from education officials.

4:43:30 SPEAKER_05: The presentation in question at Rinmark High School was delivered to ninth grade students under the guise of teaching about respectful relationships.

4:43:40 SPEAKER_05: It was so graphic and so grotesque that multiple girls asked to leave the classroom to go to the bathroom just to get away before seeking help from their parents, according to ABC News Australia.

4:43:55 SPEAKER_05: The following was for review purposes on the Consider Podcast.

4:44:02 Timothy: Well, what can you say?

4:44:03 Timothy: It's a reality that's moving forward.

4:44:08 Timothy: Let's press on.

4:44:10 Timothy: Alright, we ready to dive into Jan's testimony.

4:44:13 Timothy: And my whole point of playing at this point is okay, where are all the judges, the prosecutors going after these people that are mutilating our children, stealing them from parents, brainwashing them for lack of a better term, prosecuting them as child abuse.

4:44:31 Timothy: They're not there.

4:44:32 Timothy: Alright, let's press on with Jan, because we know why with the corruption.

4:44:36 Timothy: Alright, let's press on with jury duty, the dog and pony show.

Personal Data Demands In Jury Selection

4:44:42 SPEAKER_05: October 2006, jury selection, courtroom 4G, Seattle King County prosecutors.

4:44:50 SPEAKER_05: Prosecutor Paul Sewell.

4:44:53 SPEAKER_05: Been selected for jury duty before?

4:44:55 SPEAKER_05: Then you know it's a dog and pony show.

4:44:58 SPEAKER_05: So justice is driven back, and righteousness stands at a distance.

4:45:04 SPEAKER_05: Truth has stumbled in the streets.

4:45:06 SPEAKER_05: Honesty cannot enter.

4:45:08 SPEAKER_05: Isaiah 59 14.

4:45:11 SPEAKER_05: The Consider Podcast.info where the rubber meets the road.

4:45:23 Jacob: Yeah.

4:45:24 Jacob: And then what happens?

4:45:25 SPEAKER_22: So the first thing is they want us to go around the room.

4:45:29 SPEAKER_22: Everyone is to give your name, the city where you live, your occupation, and the occupation of all the adults in your house.

4:45:38 SPEAKER_22: Okay.

4:45:39 Timothy: Jacob, we're we're back to again.

4:45:41 Timothy: They're doing the Ulfra um Dr.

4:45:43 Timothy: Phil encounter group.

4:45:44 Timothy: Correct.

4:45:44 Timothy: And these are not only are these the jurors that you possibly could serve on, those are ones that are going to be dismissed.

4:45:50 Timothy: You're just giving out all this information.

4:45:52 Timothy: The prosecutor knows your personal information.

4:45:54 Timothy: And not just you, but your friends.

4:45:56 Jacob: No, no, no.

4:45:57 Jacob: It was well, no, it everybody in your household.

4:46:00 Jacob: What does everybody in your household do for a living?

4:46:03 Jacob: You know what they could do?

4:46:04 Jacob: They could at least help us out.

4:46:05 Jacob: And how about you ask these questions before we show up?

4:46:08 Jacob: Because if you're already going to be weeded out, don't waste my time and drag me into a courtroom for a dog and pony show.

4:46:14 Jacob: You know what?

4:46:14 Jacob: If you're going to do this, tell me ahead of time.

4:46:17 Jacob: Yeah.

4:46:17 Jacob: Well, yeah, that's one solution.

4:46:21 Jacob: Mind your own business.

4:46:22 Jacob: Well, I know, but I hear what you're saying.

4:46:24 Jacob: But you know what I mean?

4:46:25 Jacob: What a waste of time.

4:46:27 Jacob: How inefficient can they be?

4:46:29 Jacob: Well, well, the idea is not a good thing.

4:46:33 Jacob: I guess I'm encouraging like Nazi Germany.

4:46:35 Jacob: They were very efficient at killing Jesus.

4:46:37 Jacob: Yes, they were.

4:46:38 Jacob: Anyway.

4:46:40 Timothy: They're efficient in chaos.

4:46:42 Timothy: They're not wanting you comfortable.

4:46:43 Jacob: No, they don't want you comfortable.

4:46:44 Jacob: They want you to be.

4:46:48 Timothy: Now you're sitting there before this judge, right?

4:46:51 Timothy: And this prosecutor in this courtroom, and you're unfamiliar, you don't know any of these people, you would naturally be nervous as all get out.

4:46:59 Timothy: And you're you're giving out this information to these people under those circumstances.

4:47:04 Timothy: That they're literally coming in and kind of destroying all your peace, your family.

4:47:08 Timothy: It's like going to boot camp.

4:47:09 Timothy: And then when the judge says, okay, you 12 special pros and you special chosen people, then you get flattered and built back up.

4:47:17 Timothy: What is this?

4:47:18 Timothy: But a marine boot camp.

4:47:19 Timothy: Tear people down, get their information, then you're the savior.

4:47:23 Timothy: You put them back together, put them in this room, and guess what?

4:47:26 Timothy: Who are they going to please in that jury box, Jacob?

4:47:30 Timothy: The person in charge.

4:47:31 Timothy: Okay.

4:47:32 Timothy: AKE the judge.

4:47:33 Timothy: I'm still shaking my head.

4:47:34 Timothy: I'm standing there.

4:47:34 Timothy: I'm visioning myself standing there.

4:47:36 Timothy: The judge goes, Yeah, your name, city in which you live, right?

4:47:39 Timothy: Yes.

4:47:40 Timothy: And the occupations of everybody that lives in your house.

4:47:43 Timothy: In your house, yeah.

4:47:44 Timothy: Oh man.

4:47:45 Timothy: Would I you know, blessed is the man who can keep his temper under control.

4:47:50 Jacob: Uh you it's like I I wonder, I wonder if anybody has ever, like, not even for like Christian moral reasons.

4:47:57 Jacob: I wonder if anybody's ever been like, it's none of your business.

4:48:00 Jacob: Or or certainly it's none of your business what other people in my house.

4:48:03 Jacob: I'm not going to tell you who lives in my house and what they do.

4:48:06 Jacob: That's none of your business.

4:48:08 Jacob: Don't forget, you've been threatened that if you don't participate, you will be singled out.

4:48:13 Jacob: Well, you've already been threatened by the letter in the mail that says if you don't show up, it's a misdemeanor.

4:48:18 Jacob: Yeah, well, it we had we didn't we didn't cover that.

4:48:21 Jacob: Well, I haven't read it.

4:48:21 Jacob: Yeah, we barely said they touched on it.

4:48:23 Jacob: They don't actually barely.

4:48:25 Jacob: I know they don't actually do it, but never well, but it's still a threat from the very beginning.

4:48:29 Jacob: I heard a threat.

4:48:31 Jacob: Well, if you don't do what we say, you will get in trouble.

4:48:36 Timothy: You hear in Jan's testimony that she goes, I didn't have a reason not to show up.

4:48:40 Timothy: Correct.

4:48:41 Timothy: So she felt the pressure.

4:48:42 Timothy: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

4:48:43 Timothy: Even if I did I guarantee you, even if I had told Jan, Jan, they won't arrest you, you'll be driving down the street, you'll get taken.

4:48:48 Timothy: They're not gonna go, mmm, you didn't make it to jury duty.

4:48:51 Timothy: We're hauling you up.

4:48:51 Timothy: Well, yeah.

4:48:52 Timothy: It's not gonna go, it wouldn't have made a difference to her.

4:48:54 Timothy: It's the fact that the state is coming in with making a statement and bringing an authority.

4:48:59 Timothy: Most people do not.

4:49:02 Timothy: I want to be nice here.

4:49:03 Timothy: Most people don't have the fortitude to see through the con.

4:49:07 Jacob: Well, yeah, because just like we've covered in other podcasts, that one experiment, like anytime there's a guy with a white coat and a clipboard, and he's supposedly in charge, you do what you told.

4:49:17 Jacob: That's human nature.

4:49:18 Jacob: Everybody does it.

4:49:19 Jacob: Correct.

4:49:19 Jacob: Everybody by nature.

4:49:20 Jacob: Everybody.

4:49:21 Jacob: Because it's even, I know I'm, I don't know if people remember, you know, but that that experiment.

4:49:25 Jacob: And they said that that experiment was replicated a bunch of times by other people and it held true.

4:49:30 Jacob: Anyways.

4:49:31 Timothy: There's whole nations, all of history that go through that.

4:49:33 Timothy: Well, on the flip side, let me give a positive note to this question, right?

4:49:39 Timothy: We know that prosecutors and judges never ever prosecute what?

4:49:45 Timothy: Liars.

4:49:46 Timothy: Oh, liars.

4:49:46 Timothy: Well, yeah.

4:49:47 Timothy: Yeah, yeah.

4:49:48 Timothy: Oh, my dad's the attorney general of uh Washington State.

4:49:52 Timothy: Okay, well, you're excluded.

4:49:55 Timothy: I couldn't do it because I'm a Christian.

4:49:56 Timothy: But the rest of you people, if you're already doomed, nah, go for it.

4:49:59 Timothy: You know, don't play their game, don't be pulled in.

4:50:01 Timothy: You know, God may send me to hell, but I'm not going to hell for a prosecutor or a policeman or a judge or anything like that.

4:50:07 Timothy: Or because uh to the fact that this judge is comfortable to say, and what are their occupations means the state has crossed so many lines about things that are not their business.

4:50:22 Timothy: Dex, wait till they bring the social credit score in and who your friends are.

4:50:27 Timothy: And people are so useless and putting up with this, and you're there to decide the fate or whether somebody's innocent or guilty on a trial.

4:50:35 Timothy: This is m deep-seated psychology intimidation at every level.

4:50:42 Timothy: Press on, Jacob.

4:50:43 Timothy: You like to do in your free time.

4:50:45 unknown: Wow.

4:50:46 Timothy: Oh, back up.

4:50:46 Timothy: She said now you're supposed to tell them what you like to do in your free time.

4:50:50 Timothy: Yeah, what you like to do in your free time.

4:50:51 Timothy: What you like to do in your free time.

4:50:52 Timothy: We're never gonna get through this.

4:50:53 Timothy: We're gonna we're gonna be going through this show for another second.

4:50:55 Timothy: Wait a minute.

4:50:56 Timothy: Okay, can you back that up just a little bit?

4:50:57 Timothy: I want to hear the full thing where she says they want to know they want to know what I do in your free time.

4:51:05 Timothy: My free time.

4:51:05 Timothy: All right, go for it, Jacob.

4:51:08 SPEAKER_22: So the first thing is they want us to go around the room.

4:51:11 SPEAKER_22: Everyone is to give your name, the city where you live, your occupation, and the occupation of all the adults in your house, and what you like to do in your free time.

4:51:24 Timothy: Wow, okay.

4:51:25 Timothy: All right, Jacob.

4:51:26 Timothy: So many things right there.

4:51:27 Timothy: Number one, the the defense is outnumbered.

4:51:30 Timothy: It's uh uh what, three to one on best case scenario.

4:51:34 Timothy: And this isn't just about excluding certain people.

4:51:37 Timothy: That prosecutor and that judge are evaluating how they can manipulate you.

4:51:41 Timothy: The the Powerball is like 80 to 85, maybe 90% behind the judge and the prosecutor.

4:51:48 Timothy: The defense has very little power to actually influence the jury.

4:51:52 Timothy: So let's not even get the idea that there's somehow this is fair, the defense is there.

4:51:56 Timothy: First of all, if you're a defendant, you're paying at least$450 an hour for your defense attorney, and I'm not saying he doesn't own her, doesn't deserve it.

4:52:04 Timothy: The point is nobody's got that kind of money.

4:52:06 Timothy: To stand there and babysit the judge and the prosecutor that have already manipulated who's sitting there to go through, and then you're asking them, well, what do you do for fun?

4:52:14 Timothy: Or what was it?

4:52:15 Timothy: Free time.

4:52:16 Timothy: Your free time.

4:52:19 Jacob: Well, I it's easy enough to get out of jury duty.

4:52:22 Jacob: Yes, it is, because it automatically I go shoot guns at the range.

4:52:25 Jacob: Well, yeah, you you will not there's it's impossible to get a free trial if the jury is supposed to be like unbiased, or you know, in in the spirit of fairness, uh, we've talked about before, like, okay, you know, or we've talked about the concept that like the defense attorney should be able to pick his, I don't know, his three or six or whatever.

4:52:44 Jacob: Yeah, and the other dude gets to pick his.

4:52:45 Jacob: And then there you go, the jury gets to hash it out.

4:52:48 Jacob: But yeah, this way just ensures that you get a horrible jury, that you you you get mindless, you get mindless people.

4:52:57 Timothy: In the first place, people anybody sitting there through these series of questions is not upset.

4:53:03 Timothy: They don't have to be as upset as me, but you got to be pretty close to that, and you're still willing to do it, you're you're already in foolish territory as a juror.

4:53:12 Timothy: Already.

4:53:13 SPEAKER_07: Yeah.

4:53:14 Timothy: You're right.

4:53:14 Timothy: There's no way you're getting a fair jury.

4:53:16 Timothy: There's no way that's a balanced and fair jury.

4:53:19 Timothy: It's impossible.

4:53:20 Timothy: You're not even allowed to make a defense.

4:53:22 Timothy: You're broke.

4:53:23 Timothy: Yeah, you're broke.

4:53:24 Timothy: You're broke.

4:53:25 Timothy: Yeah, it's it's impossible.

4:53:26 Timothy: Good luck.

4:53:27 Timothy: Yes.

4:53:28 Timothy: Now keep going, or we'll never get through this.

4:53:31 SPEAKER_22: So we go around, you know, 50 people, you know, talk, talk about, you know, talk about all those things.

4:53:39 Jacob: Sure.

4:53:39 Jacob: Okay.

4:53:39 Jacob: So everybody does that.

4:53:41 Jacob: Eventually it comes around to you and you answer all their questions.

4:53:45 SPEAKER_22: Right.

4:53:45 SPEAKER_22: Right.

4:53:46 SPEAKER_22: Yes.

4:53:46 SPEAKER_22: I answer all my questions, you know.

4:53:49 SPEAKER_22: Then they have a list of all the potential witnesses in this case.

4:53:55 SPEAKER_22: And so they go through every witness and just say, okay, does anybody know this person?

4:54:00 SPEAKER_22: Does anybody know this person?

4:54:01 SPEAKER_22: Do you know?

4:54:02 SPEAKER_22: One thing that was so strange about this case is there were 30 police officers as witnesses.

4:54:10 Jacob: Really?

4:54:11 SPEAKER_22: Thirty.

4:54:12 SPEAKER_22: And I'm like, oh my goodness.

4:54:15 Timothy: Kayla, we'll pause there for just a second.

4:54:17 Timothy: By the way, back to the fun thing, right?

4:54:19 Timothy: Easy enough to get out of jury duty, because they wouldn't believe me.

4:54:22 Timothy: Suppose somebody, Jacob, you be the um blinded judge and ask me what I do for fun or my free time.

4:54:29 Timothy: If not fun, free time.

4:54:30 Timothy: All right, free.

4:54:31 Timothy: Isn't that what they mean?

4:54:33 Jacob: No, not necessarily.

4:54:35 Jacob: Okay.

4:54:35 Jacob: Could be two different things.

4:54:36 Jacob: Because they're asking you about what do you do for a living, aka your work, then they want to know what you do on your time off.

4:54:42 Jacob: But you could you could have a variety of answers of what you're doing with your free time, your non-working time.

4:54:47 Timothy: I see, it's kind of open-ended, tells them what's important to you versus asking specifically what's fun.

4:54:51 Timothy: Hey, pretty good.

4:54:52 Timothy: Pretty good deep psychology manipulation.

4:54:54 Timothy: What, Jacob, if they asked me what I did in my free time, I don't have free time.

4:54:59 Timothy: Sure.

4:55:00 Timothy: Would they believe me?

4:55:01 Timothy: No.

4:55:01 Timothy: No, I'd be booted.

4:55:02 Timothy: I probably would be arrested as you're being contemptuous in court.

4:55:05 Timothy: All right, then let's go on.

4:55:07 Timothy: What was the last thing that she just said?

4:55:08 Timothy: Oh, 30 police officers.

4:55:10 Jacob: They have witnesses.

4:55:11 Jacob: They have 30.

4:55:12 Timothy: No, no, no, no, no.

4:55:14 Timothy: Not witnesses.

4:55:15 Jacob: 30 police officers.

4:55:17 Jacob: No, no, no.

4:55:17 Jacob: That was that was the witness list.

4:55:19 Timothy: Yeah, I okay, I know.

4:55:21 Timothy: I hit the truth again.

4:55:22 Timothy: There's no way that 30 police officers saw this defendant commit the crime.

4:55:29 Jacob: No, of course not.

4:55:30 Jacob: But we already know from our experience that they can dr you can drag in anybody you want.

4:55:35 Jacob: They're not saying it was a witness to the crime.

4:55:36 Jacob: That's just the witness list.

4:55:38 Jacob: These are the people that we're going to call upon.

4:55:40 Timothy: And that's exactly where I was headed.

4:55:42 Timothy: I think King County prosecutors, and Daniel Satterberg was the main one at the time, but they're all in the same cahoots.

4:55:48 Timothy: Learn from that trial because that trial that we went through went on for 28 days, longer than this one, and they brought in witness after witness after witness, not to testify about the alleged crime, but to testify about why they didn't like Christianity or didn't like my preaching or my personality or whatever went down the line.

4:56:09 Timothy: They learned what you do is you stack and overwhelm.

4:56:12 Timothy: Can you follow what I'm saying?

4:56:14 Timothy: I know you follow what I'm saying, right, Jacob?

4:56:16 Timothy: Can you imagine?

4:56:16 Timothy: Let's just say that there's even some honesty to this, which there's not.

4:56:20 Timothy: You got 30 people that are well, she said 30 police officers.

4:56:24 Timothy: That's not even necessarily the full list.

4:56:26 Timothy: Correct.

4:56:27 Timothy: All right, so you got 30 police officers, you're a defendant, you're paying one lawyer$450 an hour.

4:56:33 Timothy: You have to have a deposition go through all those 30.

4:56:37 Timothy: Nobody has that kind of money.

4:56:41 Timothy: No.

4:56:41 Timothy: No uh 99% of the the so the state alone is guilty.

4:56:47 Timothy: You're not getting any type of fair trial.

4:56:50 Timothy: In my mind, I'd be going in there going, you got 30 witnesses and you got a defendant sitting here, not guilty.

4:56:56 Timothy: I only want to know about the crime.

4:56:58 Timothy: This is absurd.

4:56:58 Timothy: You're just trying to break the man.

4:57:00 Timothy: You know, in the old days, like 1600, 1700, you ever heard of pressing?

4:57:04 Timothy: Of pressing?

4:57:06 Timothy: Yeah, you'd be accused by the governing authorities or by the law.

4:57:09 Timothy: So what they would do to get to the truth, go yeah, they they'd lay you down and then stack weights and rocks on you to either kill you or get information.

4:57:16 Timothy: That's all that's happening.

4:57:17 Timothy: It's just a capitalistic society.

4:57:19 Timothy: But this is absurd.

4:57:20 Timothy: This is absurd, but we're so used to it, and we're so used to the corruption put on by the police and prosecutors, and that you've got 30 policemen coming in and saying, Oh, he's a bad person, he's a bad person.

4:57:34 Timothy: It is lunacy.

4:57:36 Timothy: That's why I can't formulate any type of response except to say, man, you guys are fools.

4:57:42 Timothy: All right, press on, Jacob.

4:57:44 Timothy: They really want this guy.

4:57:46 Timothy: See, what's the reaction?

4:57:48 Timothy: Keep playing.

4:57:48 Timothy: What what is she saying?

4:57:50 Timothy: It communicates to the whole jury, we want this guy.

4:57:53 Timothy: But it's not based on evidence.

4:57:54 Timothy: It's based upon a predominance of the state saying we're in charge, we're the people, and the judge and the prosecutor have already broken these people down.

4:58:02 Timothy: So coming to the right conclusion for the state is already being pressed in upon these people.

4:58:08 Timothy: Well, she's even saying it, and she knows better.

4:58:10 Timothy: Go ahead.

4:58:12 SPEAKER_22: 30 police officers as witnesses?

4:58:15 Jacob: Yeah.

4:58:16 Jacob: So anyway, why why do is was there so when they're reading down do you remember there was like 30 police officers and like a bunch of other people too?

4:58:26 Jacob: This is a long list they're going down.

4:58:28 SPEAKER_22: Oh, yeah, it's a long list.

4:58:30 SPEAKER_22: May most of them were police officers.

4:58:32 Jacob: Oh, and so were these officers.

4:58:34 Jacob: Were these names in written form or just verbal?

4:58:38 SPEAKER_22: They were just verbal, and they would just say, Does anybody know this person?

4:58:42 SPEAKER_22: Does anybody know this person?

4:58:43 SPEAKER_22: Does anybody know this person?

4:58:45 SPEAKER_22: Some people would know them.

4:58:47 SPEAKER_22: Oh, really?

4:58:47 Jacob: People would you would you just raise your number?

4:58:50 Jacob: Mm-hmm.

4:58:50 unknown: Yeah.

4:58:51 Jacob: And there was your number.

4:58:52 Jacob: They would say, like, so and so is a police officer.

4:58:56 SPEAKER_22: Well, no, they would say officer, you know.

4:58:59 Timothy: Oh, I see.

4:58:59 Timothy: Yeah.

4:59:00 Timothy: You know, they they would say there you go.

4:59:02 Timothy: It's easy to get out of.

4:59:02 Timothy: If again, if I weren't a Christian, every name they call I know him.

4:59:05 Timothy: I know him.

4:59:06 Timothy: I know him.

4:59:08 Timothy: First of all, the odds of some people knowing these 30 officers, these are all 30 officers in the same town.

4:59:14 Timothy: This is huge.

4:59:15 Timothy: Anyway, keep going.

4:59:16 SPEAKER_22: You know, they would identify him as a police officer.

4:59:20 SPEAKER_22: So we knew we knew they were police officers.

4:59:23 Jacob: Yeah.

4:59:23 Jacob: Okay.

4:59:24 Jacob: Weird.

4:59:25 Jacob: Why do you think they why do you think there were so many police officers on the list?

4:59:29 Jacob: Why did what did you think at the time?

4:59:32 SPEAKER_22: I th at the time I decided, oh my goodness, they really want this guy.

4:59:38 SPEAKER_22: They really want this guy.

4:59:40 SPEAKER_22: He's known by the police, and the police want him.

4:59:44 Jacob: So who's reading this list?

4:59:49 SPEAKER_22: Ooh.

4:59:49 SPEAKER_22: I don't remember now if it was the judge or the prosecutor.

4:59:54 SPEAKER_22: I think it was still the judge at this point.

4:59:57 Jacob: He was going down the list.

4:59:59 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

5:00:00 Jacob: Okay.

5:00:00 Jacob: Wow.

5:00:01 Jacob: Okay.

5:00:01 Jacob: A lot of police officers.

5:00:04 Jacob: But then what happened?

5:00:06 SPEAKER_22: And after we after we went through that, time to go home again.

5:00:09 SPEAKER_22: Everybody go home and come back the next day.

5:00:13 Jacob: Wow, okay.

5:00:14 Jacob: So how long were you there, you figure?

5:00:18 SPEAKER_22: Probably maybe an hour and a half.

5:00:22 Jacob: Oh, that's not very long.

5:00:24 Jacob: Okay.

5:00:25 SPEAKER_22: No, it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't real long, except you know, except you're just sitting there in the unknown, like what's gonna happen next, when can we leave?

5:00:36 SPEAKER_22: You know, that kind of thing.

5:00:37 SPEAKER_13: But yeah, yeah, yeah.

5:00:39 SPEAKER_13: Okay.

5:00:41 SPEAKER_22: Okay, so then uh like I said, we left and we returned the next day.

5:00:49 SPEAKER_22: And then that day they told they we were told that both the prosecutor and the defense attorney are gonna be questioning us.

Dog And Pony Show Said Out Loud

5:00:58 SPEAKER_22: And the way it was gonna work is the you know, one of them was gonna qu question us for a half an hour, and then the other one's gonna question us for a half an hour.

5:01:10 SPEAKER_22: And so we started to begin and the prosecutor went first, and he was the one, he started out.

5:01:18 SPEAKER_22: His first first question was, has anybody been on a jury before?

5:01:23 SPEAKER_22: And some jurors responded that they had, and so he made the comment, Oh, okay, well then you've been you've been through this dog and pony show before.

5:01:32 Timothy: Okay, let's Jacob, it's no wonder he said it.

5:01:35 Timothy: I mean, everything that we've looked at and the power structure that's in this courtroom and the manipulation that's going on, it's no wonder he's full of arrogance and pride.

5:01:44 Timothy: He he they own it.

5:01:46 Timothy: Correct.

5:01:46 Timothy: The prosecutor and the judge own this whole process.

5:01:51 Timothy: Keep going.

5:01:53 Jacob: Wow.

5:01:54 Jacob: So okay, because I've heard you I've heard you give that quote before, and that's this is the first thing this is the first comment from the prosecutor, right out of the gate.

5:02:04 SPEAKER_22: Exactly.

5:02:05 SPEAKER_22: His first comment.

5:02:07 SPEAKER_22: His first comment.

5:02:08 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

5:02:08 unknown: Yeah.

5:02:09 Jacob: What did you think of that comment when he said it?

5:02:12 SPEAKER_22: Well, I'm like, he was so, I just thought he was so arrogant, you know?

5:02:19 SPEAKER_22: Uh the the defense attorney, well, the defense attorney immediately jumped in and objected, stating to the judge, Judge, that comment is very dis disrespectful to the court.

5:02:31 Jacob: Wow, really?

5:02:32 Jacob: What did the judge say?

5:02:33 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

5:02:34 SPEAKER_22: The judge agreed and he sustained the objection.

5:02:39 Jacob: Oh, so this guy out of the gate is super cocky or prideful or both.

5:02:48 Timothy: Actually, Jacobies is truthful.

5:02:50 Timothy: Super truthful.

5:02:51 Timothy: And you'll notice that the judge didn't speak up until the defense spoke up.

5:02:54 Timothy: Correct.

5:02:55 Timothy: Any type of judge with any moral fiber and legal fiber, because they like to mix and match the two, the the gut reaction is go, what did you just say into my courtroom?

5:03:05 Timothy: You see it all the time on other minor cases.

5:03:07 Timothy: By the way, I made a comment a couple uh podcasts back about women shouldn't be judges, right?

5:03:14 Timothy: And then I I'm waiting for somebody to bring up Judge Judy.

5:03:16 Timothy: But here's the deal, real fast on that.

5:03:18 Timothy: Judge Judy is the mom we never had.

5:03:20 Timothy: Sure.

5:03:21 Timothy: The the things she's deciding going through, and she, by the way, she's only right 72% of the time, is just the mother nobody had.

5:03:27 Timothy: So small cases like that, not a problem, although I'd still want to know what's going on.

5:03:31 Timothy: I don't want to get too deviated on that, but some point.

5:03:34 Timothy: All right, keep going.

5:03:35 Jacob: Do you feel like okay, you were there?

5:03:37 Jacob: I mean, do you legitimately feel like his like demeanor was like that?

5:03:41 SPEAKER_22: I did.

5:03:42 SPEAKER_22: I did.

5:03:43 SPEAKER_22: He reminded me a lot of Jason Simmons.

5:03:46 SPEAKER_24: Okay, sure.

5:03:47 SPEAKER_22: You know, yeah, I mean, he kind of even kind of looked like him, acted a little bit like him, you know.

5:03:52 SPEAKER_22: And yeah, and it and I just thought, you know, he he's just kind of coming on like, oh look, this is my world, you know, I'm the prosecutor, I run this show.

5:04:02 SPEAKER_22: It's just a dog and pony show.

5:04:04 SPEAKER_22: Hey, you guys are here, you know, just going through the motions.

5:04:08 SPEAKER_22: I'm the one that decides what happens in this courtroom.

5:04:12 SPEAKER_22: And and yeah, he he did just he did just have an air like that about him, you know.

5:04:18 SPEAKER_22: But he did when he got called out, you know.

5:04:21 SPEAKER_22: I mean, he did apologize at least, you know.

5:04:24 SPEAKER_22: What do you say?

5:04:25 SPEAKER_22: What was his apology?

5:04:31 Timothy: They all do that.

5:04:32 Timothy: They all do that when the judge comes back.

5:04:34 Timothy: It's status quo for acknowledging what the judge said.

5:04:38 Timothy: Sure.

5:04:39 Timothy: It's meaningless.

5:04:40 Jacob: Yeah.

5:04:40 Jacob: Okay, really.

5:04:42 SPEAKER_11: Mm-hmm.

5:04:43 Jacob: So then what's then what's he do?

5:04:46 SPEAKER_22: Okay, well then he he goes on with some other questioning, and uh one of the things that that he asked is has anyone been involved or had an experience with a jury trial?

Evidence Suppressed And Emotions Sold

5:05:00 SPEAKER_22: So I held up my number and I told him that um I said, yes, I have, and juries don't always make the right decision.

5:05:11 Timothy: You know, again let me interject here.

5:05:13 Timothy: Very brave of Jan, very good.

5:05:16 Timothy: All the intimidation she's gone through and everything that's going on, um even the difference of clarity, maybe something, but when it but when it comes to the point of the truth, she's there.

5:05:28 Timothy: This this is like gutsy.

5:05:31 Timothy: Go ahead, Jacob.

5:05:32 SPEAKER_22: That I know of a case where an innocent man was sent to prison.

5:05:36 SPEAKER_22: He was the assistant pastor of my church, he was set up on a sex crime.

5:05:40 SPEAKER_22: I know the people that set him up, and there were many lies that were told.

5:05:46 SPEAKER_22: Um then I started crying, you know, because I mean it had been a few years, but it was still pretty fresh.

5:05:54 SPEAKER_22: So anyway, so I start crying and um and I just say, you know, it's it's not it's not right.

5:06:03 SPEAKER_22: What's happened to it?

5:06:04 SPEAKER_22: What has happened to it, you know?

5:06:07 SPEAKER_22: And so so after I finished, you know, the prosecutors like, oh well, uh I'm really sorry that that happened.

5:06:15 SPEAKER_22: Uh where was that case tried?

5:06:18 SPEAKER_22: And I said, here in the Kent Courthouse.

5:06:20 SPEAKER_22: And he's like, Oh, do you know the name of the prosecutor?

5:06:24 SPEAKER_22: And I go, Yes, it was Jason Simmons.

5:06:28 SPEAKER_22: And so he goes, Oh, well, when did it happen, you know?

5:06:32 SPEAKER_22: So I told him, and anyway, then he just moved on to his next question.

5:06:36 SPEAKER_22: Okay, let me pause there for a moment.

5:06:38 Timothy: Now the reason he's asking these questions, and I got a little bit more because I I had talked to her a lot after she got back on this particular point, is he didn't think she had an answer.

5:06:49 Timothy: So he he's not turning to her like, oh, where did it happen?

5:06:52 Timothy: In fact, one of the things that she communicated was he had said or communicated w she goes, Yeah, an innocent man was put in prison.

5:06:59 Timothy: His response was, Well, fortunately those things don't happen here.

5:07:04 Timothy: And then it proceeded from there.

5:07:06 Timothy: So he's trying to put her in a corner, you know, to show her just to be a crying woman, doesn't really know what she's talking about, but she has the name, the case number, the specifics, king county.

5:07:17 Timothy: He can't get out of it on any level.

5:07:19 Timothy: Sure.

5:07:20 Timothy: He could care less.

5:07:22 Timothy: It doesn't matter to him.

5:07:23 Timothy: He's par he's cold, he's hard.

5:07:26 Timothy: These are nasty people.

5:07:28 Timothy: And how do I know that?

5:07:29 Timothy: Well, let's just look at the evidence.

5:07:30 Timothy: Has he done anything to fix it?

5:07:32 Timothy: No.

5:07:33 Timothy: Supposedly this is Mr.

5:07:34 Timothy: Law and Order.

5:07:35 Timothy: Punish the crime, send a message.

5:07:38 Timothy: But when it comes to his own corrupt people, when it comes to his own prosecutor buddies, and all the things they do to set people up and to manipulate kids to make false accusations and harden them against their parents and so on and so forth, does he do a single thing?

5:07:53 Timothy: Not a single thing.

5:07:56 Timothy: These people do not care.

5:07:59 Timothy: Don't believe.

5:08:00 Timothy: Me, believe the prisoner that just told you they don't care.

5:08:03 Timothy: It's only about winning.

5:08:06 Timothy: They are no wonder they're more like Satan than they realize.

5:08:09 Timothy: All right.

5:08:09 Timothy: Anything on that, Jacob?

5:08:10 Jacob: No.

5:08:11 Jacob: Alright, let's move forward.

5:08:12 Jacob: Was he like taking notes when you ask when when he's asking you, okay, when did this happen?

5:08:17 Jacob: Who was the who was the prosecutor?

5:08:18 Jacob: Is he like taking notes or he's just talking, looking right at you?

5:08:22 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, he was just talking, looking right at me, but I could tell he was thinking about it.

5:08:27 SPEAKER_22: He wanted to know was the where was this?

5:08:30 SPEAKER_22: He was really thinking about it, and then he wanted to know, okay, who was the prosecutor and when did it happen?

5:08:36 SPEAKER_22: You know, I could tell he was really evaluating all of that, you know.

5:08:40 Jacob: How so and at this point, how long had it been since the Fraser trial?

5:08:45 SPEAKER_22: Well, it'd been three it'd been three years.

5:08:48 SPEAKER_22: So I was I was surprised that I was still so emotional about it.

5:08:54 Jacob: Well, there's it I I well, I don't know if it's a surprise.

5:09:00 Jacob: It was a horrific experience and it was a a gross injustice on like countless levels, pretty much.

5:09:06 Jacob: But yeah, we're not we're not necessarily here to talk about that.

5:09:09 Jacob: I was just asking the time frame because he's probably racking his brain.

5:09:13 Jacob: He knows that case.

5:09:14 Jacob: There's no way uh uh you know, a higher profile case he's not gonna remember, and as a prosecutor, he's gonna know Jason Simmons, so he's just logging it away.

5:09:24 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, yeah, right, right, yeah.

5:09:26 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, well, I'm sure he did know that case by the time the because I thought you'll I'll get to this uh later, but I did discuss it again in more detail later on during my during my interview.

5:09:39 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, yeah.

5:09:39 Jacob: Okay, so so he you you you said that at the time, and you said you even cried at the time.

5:09:44 Jacob: It was very emotional still.

5:09:45 Jacob: Did it was I don't I don't ex I know that at the time it was very emotional for you.

5:09:50 Jacob: So do you remember like were people kind of staring at you weird or you don't remember because it was in the the time, you know, the heat of the moment?

5:09:58 SPEAKER_22: I don't I don't really know how other people were responding to me, but I think anytime someone is uh is crying, people are sympathetic.

5:10:09 SPEAKER_11: Sure.

5:10:10 SPEAKER_22: And and the prosecutor was sympathetic to me too.

5:10:13 SPEAKER_22: Sure.

5:10:13 SPEAKER_22: I mean, he actually, you know, he actually, you know, of course, did he genuinely care?

5:10:19 SPEAKER_22: Well, I'm I don't you know, I'm not gonna evaluate that.

5:10:21 SPEAKER_22: But but he did respond like, I'm sorry that happened.

5:10:25 Timothy: Well, it's a dog and pony show.

5:10:27 Timothy: You know, you know, Jacob B.

5:10:28 Timothy: make a great Christian.

5:10:29 Timothy: Keep warm and well fed and go on your way.

5:10:31 Timothy: I'm saved, I'm fine.

5:10:33 Timothy: So what do I care about anything around me?

5:10:35 Timothy: Here's God putting this at his foot to deal with this right there.

5:10:38 Timothy: That and the judge, defense attorney for that matter, but well, I'm not really after those folks.

5:10:44 Timothy: They're doing the best they can under a very terrible situation.

5:10:47 Timothy: So you got a prosecutor judge sitting right there.

5:10:49 Timothy: Facts are laid out, it's very clear.

5:10:50 Timothy: It wouldn't take two seconds to pull up the information and go find out and see the corruption.

5:10:55 Timothy: They've done absolute well, you know, they did more than nothing.

5:10:59 Timothy: They had to go back and hide hide and bury it some more.

5:11:02 Timothy: They just tacked it away.

5:11:04 Timothy: And if they're this callous toward the kind of injustice and crimes that went on in this situation, there is nothing, nothing these people won't do just to win the day.

5:11:17 Timothy: All right, go ahead.

5:11:18 SPEAKER_11: Mm-hmm.

5:11:19 SPEAKER_11: Mm-hmm.

5:11:21 Jacob: Wow, because right out of the right out of the gate, it's this is a show, and so you actually are ans answering honestly, and then he's he's gotta play the part, but okay.

5:11:30 Jacob: Yeah.

5:11:31 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, yeah.

5:11:32 SPEAKER_22: I mean, yeah, he was playing the part, but he was playing, you know, the sympathetic prosecutor part, I guess you'd say.

5:11:39 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

5:11:41 Jacob: And so then he just he so he moves on.

5:11:44 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

5:11:44 SPEAKER_22: So he moves on with his with his other questions, and then of course, his time is up, his 30 minutes is up, and so and so the defense attorney comes on.

5:11:56 SPEAKER_22: Um so the defense attorney asked this c asked this question.

5:12:00 SPEAKER_22: Um, how many of you think someone was guilty if they did not testify?

5:12:06 SPEAKER_22: And many people did.

5:12:08 SPEAKER_22: Many people did.

5:12:09 SPEAKER_22: Um I I I mean, before uh before uh Malcolm's case, I I thought that too.

5:12:17 SPEAKER_22: If they didn't testify, then they were guilty.

5:12:20 Timothy: Okay.

5:12:20 SPEAKER_22: So uh I think it's a misconception a lot of people have.

5:12:23 SPEAKER_22: But anyway, yeah, a lot of the judges.

5:12:25 Timothy: Let me stop right there.

5:12:26 Timothy: That is a huge misconception.

5:12:28 Timothy: Correct.

5:12:28 Timothy: If you haven't been through the pressing of the injustice system in the United States, you're not gonna understand that.

5:12:35 Timothy: By the time you're on the witness stand, if you like want to testify, that judge and prosecutor have eliminated any type of evidence that actually show you to be innocent.

5:12:45 Timothy: They one of the things that I've really observed is a lot of there's a lot of information out there that I put on the web, right?

5:12:51 Timothy: They won't look at it.

5:12:52 Timothy: Certain some things they will look at because it just kind of affects them, but if it's labeled something, they won't even go there and look at that.

5:13:01 Timothy: They're taught to or taught or they do it naturally.

5:13:05 Timothy: They will not look at facts, they will not look at evidence.

5:13:08 Timothy: They only look at what feels like they can present to a jury to get the same feeling to condemn somebody.

5:13:15 Timothy: And everything's geared that way.

5:13:17 Timothy: For a person not to testify in a court, here's what I'm trying to say is that is extremely, extremely reasonable.

5:13:25 Timothy: Because the judge and the prosecutor control the conversation, and they will not let you get into anything of any knowledge whatsoever to actually defend yourself.

5:13:37 Timothy: I hope that's really clear to some to people.

5:13:39 Timothy: Jacob, you you can you confirm that?

5:13:42 Jacob: Uh oh, yeah, absolutely.

5:13:44 Jacob: I mean, I can yeah, I can confirm that it's a giant misconception, that's for sure.

5:13:48 Timothy: They'll say you can't bring this up, or you can't do that over here.

5:13:51 Timothy: No, we don't allow this testimony, but the prosecution, of course, is given such a wide I mean, they've got a whole landing berth of correct things they can bring up.

5:13:58 Jacob: There's before the jury comes in and you're officially on the clock, they've already negotiated what they are or are not allowed to ask a witness.

5:14:08 Jacob: So it's already been teed up.

5:14:10 Jacob: It is a show.

5:14:12 Timothy: It is, and that judge, I guarantee you, has eliminated any as much of the possibility for the defense to defend itself as is possible to fool a jury.

5:14:23 Timothy: Correct.

5:14:23 Timothy: In our particular case, the jury was easily fooled, so they could do away with anything.

5:14:27 Timothy: And they did.

5:14:28 Timothy: Everything was excluded because they knew it was a kind of a religious persecution, prosecution type thing that was going on.

5:14:36 Timothy: So they naturally got rid of all and of course they didn't have any I'm sorry, I'm deviating again, didn't have any evidence.

5:14:42 Timothy: People just need to understand that if you were accused of something, which is odds is gonna happen, not testifying is really the most reasonable course, and I would have to conclude they're innocent.

5:14:55 Timothy: I have no choice.

5:14:56 Timothy: I'm not getting all the facts.

5:14:57 Timothy: Yeah.

5:14:58 Timothy: All right, let's press forward.

5:15:10 SPEAKER_22: That it's his job to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty.

5:15:16 SPEAKER_22: It's not the responsibility of the defense attorney or the accused.

5:15:22 Timothy: Yeah, I again I'm interrupting.

5:15:24 Timothy: They use those words and the defense guy is correct, but nobody believes it and nobody lives it.

5:15:29 Jacob: Correct.

5:15:29 Timothy: And the prosecutor and the judge make sure that that never is a reality.

5:15:33 Timothy: So it's just uh he's stating the truth, but uh these people there that have moved all the way through the system, they're not hearing him.

5:15:40 Timothy: No.

5:15:40 Timothy: They're gonna give lip service to it, but it's irrelevant to them.

5:15:43 Timothy: They're all keyed up to have their emotions tingled.

5:15:46 Timothy: Keep going.

5:15:47 SPEAKER_22: And then he asked some other questions.

5:15:50 SPEAKER_22: I don't really remember what else what else he did he he did ask, you know.

5:15:55 Jacob: And so this is a this is just a bat it's a back and forth.

5:15:58 Jacob: So he used his 30 minutes and then it goes back, okay.

5:16:01 SPEAKER_22: Mm-hmm.

5:16:02 Jacob: Okay.

5:16:03 Jacob: So it goes back to the prosecutor.

5:16:05 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

5:16:05 SPEAKER_22: So then it goes back to the prosecutor.

5:16:09 SPEAKER_22: So the prosecutor Paul Se Sewell.

5:16:13 Jacob: Sewall?

5:16:14 Jacob: What how do we say his name again?

5:16:15 Jacob: How do you say it?

5:16:15 Jacob: Sewell.

5:16:16 Jacob: I say Sewell, Paul Sewell.

5:16:17 SPEAKER_22: I think that's that's the way they pronounce it.

5:16:19 Jacob: So this is like this is this is round two, prosecutor Paul Sewell.

5:16:25 Jacob: And what's he got to say now?

5:16:26 Jacob: Unfortunately, I I have a disdain in my voice because oh boy, what happens next?

5:16:32 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, well, this this is what really what uh what really got me going was what happened next.

5:16:39 SPEAKER_22: But anyway, so then it goes back to him.

Hold Me Accountable Then Ignore Facts

5:16:41 SPEAKER_22: And so he restated the fact.

5:16:44 SPEAKER_22: He goes, Okay, as the defense said, it is my responsibility to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty.

5:16:52 SPEAKER_22: And so then he asked the jury, he goes, Okay, how many of you will hold me responsible for that?

5:16:59 SPEAKER_22: Well, of course, everybody raises up their number, you know.

5:17:03 SPEAKER_22: And so uh when they're raising up their number, and then I say it's like, yeah, I Jacobs, I gotta pause it over a second.

5:17:11 Timothy: Who would not raise their hand for this?

5:17:13 Timothy: Yeah.

5:17:14 Timothy: I I I I I mean, I wouldn't raise my hand, but they'd want to know why, and I'd give a different explanation.

5:17:20 Timothy: But he's playing, he's he's playing the flattery.

5:17:22 Timothy: Yeah.

5:17:23 Timothy: He's playing the pride move.

5:17:24 Timothy: He I guess there might be that one person that wouldn't raise their hand, right?

5:17:28 Timothy: And then he could get rid of them.

5:17:29 Timothy: But this is all a ploy.

5:17:31 Timothy: This is an act, it's a dog and pony show.

5:17:33 Timothy: He's already beginning the flattery.

5:17:35 Timothy: Who of you in there in this room will hold me responsible to be sure I do this?

5:17:41 Timothy: And when already the injustices are already pouring in.

5:17:44 Timothy: This is such this is a laughable, nonsensical statement, and they're there the flattery is going everywhere.

5:17:51 Timothy: Go ahead, Jacob.

5:17:52 SPEAKER_22: I want to really uh emphasize this point.

5:17:55 SPEAKER_22: You know, I go bec I go, listen, jurors, the prosecutor has asked us to hold him re accountable, uh hold him responsible for proving beyond a shadow of a doubt the accused is guilty.

5:18:07 SPEAKER_22: It's so important that the facts of the case are considered and evaluated, not the emotional content.

5:18:15 SPEAKER_22: The case I was involved in a few years ago, there was no factual evidence, only the testimony of a false accuser.

5:18:24 Timothy: Jacob, let me let me stop this here just a minute with this whole thing.

5:18:28 Timothy: Uh we kind of know where this ends.

5:18:30 Timothy: So the prosecutor is hearing these these are really good words she's speaking.

5:18:35 Timothy: Wouldn't you say?

5:18:36 Timothy: Yeah.

5:18:37 Timothy: Solid.

5:18:38 Timothy: Wouldn't he agree?

5:18:39 Timothy: Didn't he just say, hold me to it?

5:18:40 Timothy: And she's expounding on that and telling the juror, right?

5:18:43 Timothy: Yep.

5:18:43 Timothy: So why would he get rid of her?

5:18:45 Timothy: Exactly.

5:18:46 Timothy: Why would he get rid of her?

5:18:47 Timothy: Because he's lying.

5:18:48 Timothy: And I thought for sure lying was illegal.

5:18:51 Timothy: Oh no, what am I saying?

5:18:52 Timothy: Yes, it's illegal, it's just never punished.

5:18:54 Timothy: He'd be in jail.

5:18:55 Timothy: I could I could we could prove that he's lying and he'd serve no time.

5:19:00 Jacob: Correct.

5:19:02 Timothy: Move forward.

5:19:13 SPEAKER_22: But then the prosecutor went on to make a plea to the jury based on emotion.

5:19:19 Jacob: So you said this you you said this.

5:19:23 Jacob: So when you all raised your hands, you're saying this to everybody in the room.

5:19:27 SPEAKER_22: I'm saying this to all the jurors.

5:19:29 SPEAKER_22: I'm addressing the jurors at this point.

5:19:31 Jacob: Oh, but you weren't called on?

5:19:33 Jacob: I'm just clarifying the story.

5:19:34 Jacob: You weren't called on, but you you like what?

5:19:36 Jacob: You couldn't help yourself.

5:19:39 SPEAKER_22: Well, it's kind of like when you raise your number up, you can talk if you want to.

5:19:45 Jacob: I see.

5:19:46 SPEAKER_22: So yes, everybody, everybody raised their number up.

5:19:48 SPEAKER_22: You know, I was the only one that spoke, but when you raise your number up, you can speak.

5:19:53 Timothy: Okay.

5:19:54 Timothy: All right.

5:19:55 Timothy: So remember, Jacob, this this is an encounter group.

5:19:57 Timothy: Correct.

5:19:58 Timothy: Now, again, I'm very impressed with her.

5:20:00 Timothy: She's she she she don't even bother with the prosecutor.

5:20:03 Timothy: She turns to the fellow jurors.

5:20:05 Timothy: I think there's more love there within Jan than she realizes.

5:20:09 Timothy: She doesn't want them held accountable for the corruption of the court system.

5:20:13 Timothy: Keep going.

5:20:19 Jacob: Sure.

5:20:19 Jacob: Yeah.

5:20:19 Jacob: And so then what else what else did you say?

5:20:21 Jacob: Go ahead.

5:20:21 Jacob: I know I I cut you off a little bit there.

5:20:22 Jacob: I was just getting a clear picture in my mind.

5:20:25 Jacob: Yeah, yeah, right.

5:20:26 Jacob: Okay.

5:20:28 SPEAKER_22: Okay.

5:20:29 SPEAKER_22: Okay, and so then I went on and said, I said and plus there was evidence that was not allowed to be presented at the trial.

5:20:37 SPEAKER_22: The detective, uh Dr.

5:20:39 SPEAKER_22: Detective Grant McCall was found with misconduct by Judge Beth Andrus because of her religious bias in this case, but that wasn't allowed to be known to the jury.

5:20:51 SPEAKER_22: And the prosecutor and the police were working together to hide and conceal evidence from the jury as well.

5:21:00 SPEAKER_22: And so I'm like, guys, you've got to pay attention to the facts of a case and decide based on facts, not emotion.

5:21:11 Timothy: So Can you imagine this prosecutor, Paul, hearing this?

5:21:16 Timothy: It's like he doesn't he his whole life is the opposite of her.

5:21:19 Timothy: Yeah.

5:21:20 Timothy: Keep going.

5:21:21 SPEAKER_22: Oh okay, so I say all this.

5:21:23 SPEAKER_22: I mean it is totally quiet.

5:21:27 Jacob: Sure.

5:21:28 Jacob: Like really quiet.

5:21:29 Jacob: Like what are those times?

5:21:29 SPEAKER_22: It's super quiet.

5:21:32 SPEAKER_22: Everybody's looking.

5:21:34 SPEAKER_22: Everybody is like uh they're not doing anything or saying it.

5:21:39 SPEAKER_22: I mean, it's just totally quiet.

5:21:42 SPEAKER_22: Yeah.

5:21:43 SPEAKER_22: And then the prosecutor, he just ignoring everything I just said, he just continued with his next question.

5:21:55 Jacob: Do you think that um I think you had mentioned earlier, what was your words?

5:21:59 Jacob: He was prideful and something else I think you had mentioned, or at the beginning when he's when he's spouting off this is gonna this is a dog and pony show.

5:22:07 Jacob: Did he did he have that kind of when you after you said it, did he was he given did you ever look over at him?

5:22:12 Jacob: What was his look like?

5:22:15 SPEAKER_22: I think he he didn't he didn't really know what to do.

5:22:19 Jacob: So he had like How would you describe his look then?

5:22:22 Jacob: Like before it was prideful, what was it now?

5:22:25 SPEAKER_22: Yeah, I think it was just Can I answer that, Jacob?

5:22:30 Timothy: I wasn't there.

5:22:30 Timothy: I don't think he has an emotion or face look that goes along with such honesty.

5:22:34 Timothy: Sure.

5:22:35 Timothy: It's out of the I I guess it would be like what asking a four-year-old to do something that only a ten-year-old can do.

5:22:42 Timothy: Sure.

5:22:42 Timothy: It's they wouldn't even comprehend what you're saying.

5:22:45 Timothy: I I I he can't get it, he doesn't get it, he has no stock answers and replies or demeanor or response you can do because really at this point her testimony is so strong and so clear.

5:23:01 Timothy: Any normal reasonable person, judge, whatever, go, you know, we're gonna look into this.

5:23:08 Timothy: That that's just a normal response.

5:23:10 Timothy: You have to be very dark and callous to hear her say this and then just in a position of authority and then do nothing.

5:23:17 SPEAKER_10: Sure.

5:23:18 Timothy: And he had no response because honesty, it just is not in the courtroom.

5:23:23 Timothy: It's not in the judge, it's not in the prosecutor.

5:23:25 Timothy: Go ahead.

5:23:27 SPEAKER_22: Um It wasn't like he was humbled or humiliated, but it's just like I'm not dealing with this, you know.

5:23:41 SPEAKER_22: I'm not gonna address it.

Final Warning And Closing

5:23:42 Timothy: Jacob, we probably ought to we probably ought to pause there.

5:23:46 SPEAKER_20: This has been the Consider Podcast with your hosts, Timothy and Jacob, where the whole gospel message has been used to examine today's wisdom, folly, and madness.

5:23:56 SPEAKER_20: For more information, drop by www.consider.info.

5:24:01 SPEAKER_20: The consider podcast, examining today's wisdom, folly, and madness with the whole gospel.