Prosecutor Bible Study Time : Leadership Part 2 : Hireling

Introduction to Leadership by Shepherding

0:08 Speaker 2: it's prosecutor, jason simmons.

0:11 Speaker 2: Bible study time part two.

0:13 Speaker 2: Topic leadership by shepherding.

0:17 Speaker 2: The lesson timothy williams is not a hireling.

0:22 Speaker 2: The definition for hireling One who is hired serving for personal benefit.

0:31 Speaker 2: The Consider Podcast.

0:34 Speaker 2: Podcast Examining today's wisdom, folly and madness wwwconsiderinfoinfo.

0:50 Speaker 1: We're continuing our prosecutor Jason Simmons Bible study time.

0:56 Speaker 1: I hope you're keeping up because we got a long way to go.

0:59 Speaker 1: We still have not got to a lot of other issues, including that whole matter of justice.

1:05 Speaker 1: Oh, jacob, would you have described my leadership style?

1:11 Speaker 1: We talked about this before, but I'm just kind of recapping as authoritative, bossy, rude, controlling, manipulating, you know, making people do what I want, this kind of head guru kind of thing.

1:24 Speaker 1: No, that's right.

1:26 Speaker 1: I'm not even close to what King County prosecutors do to people.

1:29 Speaker 1: Again, we're continuing our discussion of leadership, something that Judge Lori K Smith, who is a woman of the year, and Prosecutor Jason Simmons think they have a monopoly on.

1:41 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Simmons wanted to know what kind of leadership was it?

1:45 Speaker 1: How was it?

1:45 Speaker 1: Who was in charge?

1:46 Speaker 1: How did it work?

1:47 Speaker 1: Well, it was shepherding leadership, and let's continue that discussion.

1:54 Speaker 3: Welcome to the Consider podcast, where we examine today's wisdom, folly and madness.

1:59 Speaker 3: More information can be found at wwwconsiderinfo.

2:04 Speaker 3: Now here are your hosts, timothy and Jacob.

2:14 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Simmons and Judge Lori K Smith, I have a book to recommend.

2:19 Speaker 1: Now, hang on, don't hyperventilate, don't go into spasmodic type stuff and don't go saying I write all the books because I didn't write this book.

2:29 Speaker 1: Whoa, whoa, what, what you?

2:31 Speaker 4: didn't write this book.

2:32 Speaker 1: It's shocking to believe that I actually read a book outside the books that I read.

2:38 Speaker 5: Yeah, as if all you do is sit around reading your own books.

2:42 Speaker 1: Oh, exactly, you know, and just make up the doctrines.

2:45 Speaker 1: As I go and avoid good humor, humorunics, I can't even pronounce it.

2:49 Speaker 1: Yeah, humor, yeah, neither can I.

2:50 Speaker 1: We'll get back into that later.

2:52 Speaker 1: The title of the book is A Shepherd Looks at the Psalm 23 by W Philip Keller.

2:58 Speaker 1: Go get that book If you want an idea on shepherding.

3:07 Speaker 1: That'd give you a rough idea.

3:08 Speaker 1: He was an actual shepherd of sheep and so he compares his experiences to scriptural.

3:11 Speaker 1: It's a short book, so it's not going to require you a lot of time, a lot of effort.

3:14 Speaker 1: It's not a deep thinking type book, but it does give a broad brushstroke of what a shepherd would do toward its sheep and how that applies to Jesus Christ and us and other leaders.

3:27 Speaker 1: Jacob, let's look at 1 Peter, 2, verse 25 before I talk about the book a little bit more.

3:33 Speaker 1: Why don't you go ahead and read that, jacob?

3:35 Speaker 1: 1 Peter 2, 25,.

3:36 Speaker 5: For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the shepherd and overseer of your soul.

3:43 Speaker 5: Now you have returned to the shepherd and overseer of your soul.

3:44 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ is the shepherd of all shepherds, the big worshiping shepherd, the one that you're supposed to be following.

3:53 Speaker 1: That's why I never preached myself.

3:54 Speaker 1: I never demanded, suggested, wanted, remotely went in any territory, that said to anybody they should follow me.

4:03 Speaker 1: Correct, jacob?

4:04 Speaker 1: Correct, very correct.

4:04 Speaker 1: I never said this is what I want done.

4:07 Speaker 1: So let's do it.

4:08 Speaker 1: It just never, ever happened.

4:10 Speaker 1: Because I'm following Jesus Christ, he is the shepherd who shepherds me, he's the overseer of my soul.

4:18 Speaker 1: And I'm pointing to other people, let me just stop right there.

4:22 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ is the overseer of our soul.

4:24 Speaker 1: Correct, jacob?

4:25 Speaker 1: Yes, am I able to see your soul?

4:27 Speaker 1: No, can I contain it?

4:30 Speaker 1: Quantify it?

4:31 Speaker 1: No, point to it?

4:33 Speaker 1: No, manipulate it.

4:34 Speaker 1: Say this over here your soul belongs to you solely, without too many souls involved.

4:40 Speaker 1: Right, correct?

4:41 Speaker 1: Only Jesus can do that.

4:42 Speaker 1: Right, correct, only jesus can do that.

4:46 Speaker 1: And if you've, if you would have bothered before, you did your nasty little trial of slander and lies and twisting of all man, every angle.

4:51 Speaker 1: That trial was an absolute travesty toward the truth.

4:55 Speaker 1: It just replaced truth with lies over and over again.

4:59 Speaker 1: Of course, that's how you won.

5:00 Speaker 1: And judge laurie k smith backed up all the lies that you could conjure up to do and naturally, since you never, ever prosecute those who lie for you, like a piece of dung you attract these flies and all they'll do is lie, because they know that you will use it for your benefit.

5:17 Speaker 1: And so the liars come into King County Court and just overflow it like a bunch of flies.

5:23 Speaker 1: You can't even get rid of them, because the minute you shoe one, a hundred other ones come back.

5:26 Speaker 1: Anyway, he's the overseer of our souls, right?

5:29 Speaker 1: Yes, if there's ever a sense of incompetence on my part or weakness, it would be trying to strengthen someone's soul.

5:40 Speaker 1: I can't do that and they have to get back into the prayer closet.

5:44 Speaker 1: They have to begin to become obedient to Jesus Christ in order for Jesus to bless them.

5:49 Speaker 1: I follow Jesus Christ, who is my shepherd and the overseer of my soul.

5:55 Speaker 1: Now again back to the book.

5:56 Speaker 1: The Shepherd Looks at the Psalm 23 by W Philip Keller.

6:00 Speaker 1: I have to mention this was a mass-marketed Christian book.

6:06 Speaker 1: Therefore, things were removed from it because it wouldn't sell and it gives a false impression of what kind of shepherd that we follow.

6:17 Speaker 1: Now, you're not going to like this, simmons.

6:20 Speaker 1: You're not going to like this, judge Laurie K Smith.

6:22 Speaker 1: But this is the part that was left out, and this is why you find a whole host of quote and I'm putting in quote Christians that don't like Sound Doctrine Church or don't like this podcast, because we preach the whole gospel.

6:36 Speaker 1: The book is nice and warm and fuzzy and it tells the story of a shepherd that cares.

6:40 Speaker 1: In fact, the subtitle is Discovering God's Love for you, which is a true statement.

6:45 Speaker 1: But what they don't bring in is how God views us as his sheep.

6:49 Speaker 1: How is he shepherding us and where is he taking us to?

6:52 Speaker 1: And this is going to be offensive.

6:54 Speaker 1: I'm not apologizing for it, I'm just telling you this is how it is.

6:58 Speaker 1: There's rich life if you learn from it, if you submit to it.

7:02 Speaker 1: But this is the part that's left out.

7:04 Speaker 1: And since Sound Doctrine Church, when it was around till you drove it out of the city of Enumclaw by your lies and false prosecution preached the whole gospel.

7:15 Speaker 1: Let's go to Romans 8, verse 36.

7:19 Speaker 1: And I'll let you read that here in a moment, jacob, but if we read this scripture, we have to have what is the mind of God?

7:28 Speaker 1: What is the mind of Jesus Christ, since he's the shepherd?

7:32 Speaker 1: Where is the shepherd leading the sheep?

7:35 Speaker 1: Right, he's not out there just standing around, correct, he's moving them in a certain direction.

7:41 Speaker 1: He'll protect them over here or he'll move them over here.

7:44 Speaker 1: Moving them in a certain direction, he'll protect them over here or he'll move them over here.

7:47 Speaker 1: But where is he heading them?

7:51 Speaker 1: Where did God shepherd Jesus, so to speak?

7:53 Speaker 1: Where did God lead Jesus Christ toward?

7:53 Speaker 1: Where was Jesus always, from the time he was born, all the way through with the disciples?

7:57 Speaker 1: Where was Jesus headed?

7:59 Speaker 1: Jacob?

7:59 Speaker 1: The cross, the cross.

8:01 Speaker 1: Are we not to walk as Jesus walked?

8:03 Speaker 1: Yes, would not the Holy Spirit lead us where Jesus walked, so that we walk according to the walk of Jesus Christ?

8:11 Speaker 1: Yes, which will always lead toward the cross?

8:15 Speaker 1: You know publicly being shamed by prosecutors, being persecuted by lies, being whipped, being beaten, being mocked by lies, being whipped, being beaten, being mocked.

8:27 Speaker 1: Walk through the parades of the town and everybody mocking you, throwing things at you, looking down on you, thinking well, you're not really of God.

8:32 Speaker 1: Look how weak you are, nailing you to a cross, all the pain and all the suffering.

The True Nature of Spiritual Leadership

8:36 Speaker 1: Jesus said blessed are you when women falsely accuse you of things, because that's how they treated the prophets of old Romans, 8, verse 36.

8:48 Speaker 1: This is how Jesus Christ, this is how God views his sheep and you're not going to understand it and you're not going to like it, but this is the truth and there's life in it and later on I hope we get to it.

9:02 Speaker 1: Go ahead and read it.

9:02 Speaker 1: Jacob Romans 8, verse 36.

9:06 Speaker 5: As it is written, for your sake.

9:08 Speaker 5: We face death all day long.

9:10 Speaker 5: We are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.

9:15 Speaker 1: Hey, let's let that soak in just a little bit.

9:17 Speaker 1: We are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.

9:22 Speaker 1: Isn't the whole Old Testament full of all kinds of slaughtered animals, Jacob?

9:28 Speaker 5: Yeah, on like a either daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis, right Tons of milestones for all the things that you killed.

9:37 Speaker 1: That would have, and it would have been so impressed upon everybody there had been no escaping it.

9:41 Speaker 1: You wouldn't even actually given it a second thought, because it just went one sacrifice after another sacrifice.

9:46 Speaker 1: And when Solomon dedicated the temple, you know it was recorded how many things he sacrificed, whether it's bulls, sheep or whatever.

9:55 Speaker 5: Hundreds, oh yeah, all at once.

9:57 Speaker 1: They would just like chop.

9:59 Speaker 1: And then the ultimate, of course.

10:01 Speaker 1: What did Abraham offer to God?

10:02 Speaker 1: His only son, his only son, his only son.

10:05 Speaker 1: And God provided a ramp.

10:08 Speaker 1: When God looks at Christians, prosecutor Simmons and Judge Laurie K Smith and all the other prosecutors that joined in the chorus of let's run this church out of town Remember you asked what are you going to do when your church can't meet anymore?

10:22 Speaker 1: When God looks at sheep to be slaughtered I mean when he looks at sheep it is to be slaughtered he's shepherding the Christians to lose their life.

10:32 Speaker 1: He's shepherding the sheep to lay down their life for one another.

10:37 Speaker 1: He's shepherding and moving the sheep toward the cross, and sometimes that comes out in persecution.

10:44 Speaker 1: Sometimes it comes out in sacrificing and loving other people toward the cross, and sometimes that comes out in persecution.

10:46 Speaker 1: Sometimes it comes out in sacrificing and loving other people in the church.

10:48 Speaker 1: But the whole daily life is the shepherd leading us ever closer to the cross.

10:54 Speaker 1: That is giving up myself for the love of God.

10:57 Speaker 1: Isn't that what Jesus said when he was in the garden?

11:00 Speaker 1: The world needs to learn that I do whatever pleases the Father, and that's exactly how jesus leads us.

11:06 Speaker 1: Jacob, anything you want to kind of comment on or bring together a little bit on that?

11:14 Speaker 1: No, I don't think so.

11:15 Speaker 1: On a basic level, would you say that my life has been consistent not only in preaching that but living it yes we'llcutor Simmons.

11:25 Speaker 1: This is the rub.

11:26 Speaker 1: When people decide they no longer want to follow Jesus Christ, what they do is leave and say they were not going to word it this way.

11:34 Speaker 1: I'm just kind of condensing.

11:35 Speaker 1: We're always being led toward the cross, we're always having to give up things or we're always having to surrender things.

11:41 Speaker 1: Yes, that's the Christian life and that's how you learn to love God and to love other people.

11:45 Speaker 1: No apology for it.

11:46 Speaker 1: That's where the abundant life is, and all you're doing is listening to people whine and complain because you don't want to love other people, because you don't want to lay down your life, because you don't want to glorify God.

11:57 Speaker 1: Both you and Judge Lori K Smith, it's evident you have no interest in God.

12:00 Speaker 1: Because I'll tell you what, by this time, we have proven enough lies down through this trial and in the background, noise.

12:07 Speaker 1: Simmons and the King County prosecutor should be prosecuting these people for perjury.

12:11 Speaker 1: True, jacob, true, absolutely.

12:13 Speaker 1: There's no excuse.

12:14 Speaker 1: By this time, we have overwhelmingly proven that Detective Grant McCall and all kinds of other people wrapped all of this in lies.

12:22 Speaker 1: You may not agree with the doctrine, you may not like the way that I preach or whatever is going on, but in terms of what was actually presented in that courtroom, including the accusation of abuse.

12:31 Speaker 1: We have proven, we've done your work that you should have done and then prosecuted the people that were lying and setting this thing up.

12:39 Speaker 1: Get an amen on that one, jacob.

12:41 Speaker 1: Amen, all right.

12:42 Speaker 1: There are too many amens on that.

12:44 Speaker 1: All right, there are too many amens on that, all right.

12:46 Speaker 1: I want to pause here to make sure that this is clear.

12:48 Speaker 1: I think it is.

12:53 Speaker 2: It's probably all too clear because nobody wants to go do it.

12:57 Speaker 2: Demons believe in Jesus.

12:58 Speaker 2: Demons know for a fact that Jesus is the Son of God.

13:04 Speaker 2: Like demons, most Christians believe in Jesus.

13:08 Speaker 2: James 2.19,.

13:10 Speaker 2: You believe that there is one God good.

13:13 Speaker 2: Even the demons believe that and shudder To become a disciple of Jesus.

13:21 Speaker 2: Read Even the Demons Believe by Timothy Williams.

13:24 Speaker 2: Become a disciple of Jesus.

13:25 Speaker 2: Read Even the Demons Believe by Timothy Williams.

13:28 Speaker 2: Even the Demons Believe is free on the Consider podcast, wwwconsiderinfo.

13:40 Speaker 2: Where the rubber meets the road.

13:43 Speaker 1: This is where the joy and the love comes in.

13:45 Speaker 1: If we live this, all right, let's go to Hebrews, chapter 13, verse 20.

13:51 Speaker 1: Hebrews 13.

13:51 Speaker 1: The ironic part about this is that once you go into the garden with Jesus and you wrestle out your sinful nature and your sin and your struggle, not wanting to do God's will, there's a joy that comes about.

14:05 Speaker 1: There's a resurrected life.

14:06 Speaker 1: But there's no resurrected abundant life in Jesus Christ unless you go to the cross and die.

14:12 Speaker 1: It's really that simple.

14:13 Speaker 1: We don't get to bypass that, and that's what most of the Christian church does, if they even talk about.

14:17 Speaker 1: Even talk about.

14:18 Speaker 1: It is to bypass it and say, well, we don't have to go to the cross, jesus Christ did it all, we don't have to walk as he walked, and so on.

14:24 Speaker 1: But this leads to peace.

14:26 Speaker 1: Once Timothy Williams gives up his sinful nature or whatever selfishness he's struggling with or whatever's going on, there is peace that comes.

14:35 Speaker 1: Hebrews 13, 20.

14:37 Speaker 1: Jacob, I'm going to let you read 20 and 21, and then I'm going to come back at it.

14:42 Speaker 5: May the God of peace, who, through the blood of the eternal covenant, brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever.

15:02 Speaker 5: Amen.

15:03 Speaker 1: Tell you what Mr Simmons and Judge Laurie K Smith and I'll name the other names later on.

15:07 Speaker 1: You don't have to listen or do anything that I mentioned.

15:10 Speaker 1: Why don't you get in the prayer closet and live?

15:13 Speaker 1: Hebrews 13, verses 20 and 21?

15:16 Speaker 1: You don't need me to do it.

15:17 Speaker 1: Go in and do that.

15:18 Speaker 1: I guarantee you'll be coming back wanting to fellowship or at least to correct your sins.

15:23 Speaker 1: Let's look at it again.

15:25 Speaker 1: Hebrews 13, 20,.

15:26 Speaker 1: May the God of peace.

15:27 Speaker 1: There was a time when these people that whined and complained and moaned and groaned unless they were outside the church and never bothered to even pick up their cross and follow Jesus Christ, were full of peace.

15:38 Speaker 1: They had that peace, but then they got tired of carrying their cross.

15:42 Speaker 1: Wrestling with sin is a 24-7 till you're dead kind of thing.

15:45 Speaker 1: May the God of peace who, through the blood of the eternal covenant, brought back from the dead of our Lord Jesus.

15:51 Speaker 1: This had power, and we've covered this in past episodes that great shepherd of the sheep, Jesus Christ.

Jesus as the Chief Shepherd

16:00 Speaker 1: How did leadership work?

16:01 Speaker 1: Who was leadership?

16:02 Speaker 1: It was, in reality, the great shepherd, Jesus Christ, and I followed him to shepherd the sheep within the body.

16:11 Speaker 1: But we're all following Jesus Christ.

16:14 Speaker 1: We're all following the great shepherd.

16:15 Speaker 1: I'm just a sheep.

16:17 Speaker 1: He's the shepherd.

16:18 Speaker 1: Am I making that clear?

16:20 Speaker 1: Yes, All right.

16:22 Speaker 1: Then verse 21, equipped you with everything good for doing his will.

16:26 Speaker 1: The Christian life is impossible to live unless God equips you to do it.

16:31 Speaker 1: I'm not going to repeat that again, because we've covered that before.

16:34 Speaker 1: May he equip you with everything good for doing his will and may he work in us.

16:39 Speaker 1: What is pleasing to him?

16:40 Speaker 1: The whole Christian life comes down to, not what is pleasing to Timothy Williams, but what is pleasing to God.

16:47 Speaker 1: So how did leadership work?

16:49 Speaker 1: Well, we strive to go after what was pleasing only to God, not to please Jesus Christ I mean, sorry, not to please Timothy Williams, and I would fight whatever.

17:00 Speaker 1: It never even came to mind because we weren't trying to please me.

17:02 Speaker 1: Right, Jacob?

17:03 Speaker 1: Correct, it just never happened because that wasn't the goal, that wasn't the purpose, that wasn't the focus.

17:09 Speaker 1: It never, ever was.

17:11 Speaker 1: It was always.

17:12 Speaker 1: What does God want us to do?

17:14 Speaker 1: What is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever.

17:20 Speaker 1: Amen.

17:21 Speaker 1: Judge Lori K Smith, I never received, you know, man of the Year Award or Preacher of the Year.

17:29 Speaker 1: What are some other awards that I?

17:32 Speaker 5: Writer of the Year, yeah, writer of the Year.

17:34 Speaker 1: Oh boy, that would be a joke.

17:36 Speaker 5: Conference Leader of the Year.

17:37 Speaker 5: Oh yeahiter of the Year.

17:38 Speaker 5: Oh boy, I don't know, that would be a joke.

17:38 Speaker 5: Conference Leader of the Year.

17:39 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, All the other people get all those awards.

17:40 Speaker 5: Inspiration of the Year.

17:42 Speaker 1: How come Simpsons doesn't go after them.

17:44 Speaker 1: I don't know.

17:45 Speaker 1: I didn't have any rewards.

17:46 Speaker 1: Therefore, what I'm guilty.

17:49 Speaker 5: I guess, if I would have had an award.

17:51 Speaker 5: Well, that's because you're an evil cult leader, so you do all these things quietly.

17:54 Speaker 1: Well, I don't even get an evil cult leader award, that's true?

17:58 Speaker 1: Or I really should get the worst cult leader of all time if that was the case.

18:03 Speaker 1: Correct, okay, let's go to 1 Peter 5, verse 2.

18:09 Speaker 1: Once again, we're just driving this home, because it's all through Scripture, it's all through my preaching, it's all through all of the books which you've never read but which you prosecuted me for.

18:18 Speaker 1: 1 Peter 5, verse 2.

18:20 Speaker 1: Now it's talking about we've all come to the great shepherd, and now Peter's going to talk about those in leadership.

18:28 Speaker 1: So let's hone in on.

18:36 Speaker 1: How did leadership work?

18:37 Speaker 1: Who was in charge?

18:38 Speaker 1: Well, I've answered over and over again the person in charge was jesus christ.

18:38 Speaker 1: Not that you're going to believe that.

18:40 Speaker 1: First, peter, chapter 5, verse 2.

18:41 Speaker 1: It says be shepherds of god's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers.

18:47 Speaker 1: We have jesus christ is the head overseer, correct?

18:51 Speaker 1: Yes?

18:51 Speaker 1: And we have jesus christ is the shepherd of all shepherds.

18:54 Speaker 1: He's the top shepherd of the year award, right, yes?

18:58 Speaker 1: Then Jesus Christ appoints.

19:01 Speaker 1: Who then is small-time overseers, or what?

19:07 Speaker 5: would you call a secondary shepherd Out there in the evangelical world?

19:14 Speaker 5: I think it's called like under-shepherds, Under-shepherds or under shepherds.

19:18 Speaker 1: That you may be right.

19:18 Speaker 5: I don't know, I don't remember, there's a term for like the head person and then, yeah, like an under shepherd, like he's the shepherd, well, so they even have they even have the shepherds, then, from what you're telling me, oh, yeah, even in christian circles this is actually a common thing that jesus is the shepherd Right.

19:36 Speaker 5: A pastor is like underneath that shepherd, and then you know each individual church would be considered a flock and you're following the pastor who's following Jesus Christ.

19:46 Speaker 5: This is a common, you know.

19:48 Speaker 5: You can argue about the particulars of that, but this is a common, agreed upon thing.

19:53 Speaker 1: So I'm educating Simmons on what's just common knowledge right among christian groups.

19:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, so he just chose to believe all the slander and the lies yeah, you know.

20:02 Speaker 1: What do you?

20:02 Speaker 1: What do you expect people to go?

20:03 Speaker 1: They go into court and they're, I know, divorce court or whatever.

20:06 Speaker 1: What.

20:07 Speaker 1: What are they gonna say?

20:08 Speaker 1: They're gonna I'm guilty, I'm the one at fault, I'm a terrible father and so the marriage fell apart.

20:12 Speaker 1: No, I stopped being kind, I stopped being all all these things, I stopped caring.

20:16 Speaker 5: I checked out.

20:16 Speaker 1: It would be.

20:17 Speaker 1: Timothy Williams divided us and Timothy Williams forced me to do this.

20:20 Speaker 1: And Timothy Williams authoritative and Timothy Williams controlled everyone.

20:23 Speaker 1: We've already covered this in previous episodes.

20:25 Speaker 1: It's just totally absurd.

20:27 Speaker 1: Who goes into court, prosecutor Simmons, and says I'm the one that's responsible for the division in this?

20:34 Speaker 1: You know, everything that sound doctrine did in terms of family was to try and hold it together.

20:37 Speaker 1: Correct, try to hold it together.

20:39 Speaker 1: It had to be in relationship to the truth, and we could even have people that were in God decided they didn't want to, and as long as they lived in peace in the household, it wasn't a problem.

20:50 Speaker 1: Correct, we did everything in our power to hold it together, though Prosecutor Simmon, jew painted it in such an ugly, vile lie of a contrary thing that any good deed was considered evil and wicked.

21:03 Speaker 1: What you did is just extremely vile.

21:07 Speaker 1: All right, be shepherds of God's flock.

21:11 Speaker 1: That is under your care.

21:13 Speaker 1: It is under your care.

21:14 Speaker 1: Everything that was done in terms of leadership, everything that I did and you've reduced this down to me was done for the benefit of those whom I serve, serving as overseers, not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be.

21:31 Speaker 1: That's why I said I'm not whining, I'm not complaining, and all right.

21:35 Speaker 1: So we're sidetracking here a little bit.

21:37 Speaker 1: Simmons, you ought to go, and I don't think we'll have time to get to it, but you ought to go, follow Moses as he's leading the congregation out of Egypt.

21:44 Speaker 1: There's a lot of parallels there.

21:46 Speaker 1: I don't know whether you're a Christian or not, if you even understand the concept, but you've got the Israelites in slavery, which is compared compared to our sin.

21:52 Speaker 1: Moses leads them out, god miraculously delivers them.

21:56 Speaker 1: They get baptized in the Red Sea, get split, they move on and then they get out of the desert and things get a little bit tough and a little gets rough.

22:04 Speaker 1: And what happens, Jacob?

22:05 Speaker 1: Does the congregation go?

22:06 Speaker 1: Oh, we've seen God work and all these miracles and we've been delivered and everything was great and hunky dory, and now we're out in the desert.

22:13 Speaker 1: So we're going to have a prayer meeting and trust God and give thanks?

22:16 Speaker 1: No, definitely not.

22:17 Speaker 1: That's what happened at Sound Doctrine Church to a very large degree.

22:21 Speaker 1: They got out in the desert.

22:22 Speaker 1: It gets a little tough.

22:24 Speaker 1: You've got to pick up the cross, you know governing authorities come after you and things like that, and so you wind up complaining, grumbling and then you wind up betraying and leaving Jesus Christ at least some of them.

22:33 Speaker 1: So if you want to know what happened and what part you played in it, just go read that story.

The Cross-Centered Life

22:43 Speaker 1: You're part of the enemy camp that came in and divided the congregation.

22:45 Speaker 1: Serious stuff, all right.

22:46 Speaker 1: Serving because not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you, to be, not greedy for money but eager to serve.

22:54 Speaker 1: Nobody's going to believe it, but Jacob, let's just do the testimony before God and before man.

23:01 Speaker 1: Am I greedy for money?

23:03 Speaker 1: No, am I not eager to serve?

23:07 Speaker 1: Looking to constantly give away, yes, I wish I had more opportunities Then.

23:12 Speaker 1: 1 Peter 5, 3, there is an authority with leadership, simmons.

23:17 Speaker 1: It's there to protect, to guide.

23:19 Speaker 1: Even the shepherd of shepherds says thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.

23:25 Speaker 1: The rod and the staff is used to guide, direct, use, a symbol also to tap on the head, to do a few things to make sure people, the sheep, stay in line, because they're very vulnerable to wolves who come in and just scatter the flock.

23:38 Speaker 1: All right, 1 Peter 5.3, not lording it over them, not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.

23:48 Speaker 1: Did I ever lord it over anybody that I was in leadership.

23:53 Speaker 1: No, what's ironic about this is there's a lot of pastors who do do that.

23:57 Speaker 5: Correct.

23:58 Speaker 5: A lot of pastors will be like the Lord has put me here.

24:02 Speaker 5: I'm in charge, you're supposed to follow me.

24:05 Speaker 5: Follow me, yeah, but I have a calling and I have a mission.

24:07 Speaker 5: I have a calling.

24:08 Speaker 1: I have a mission.

24:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, I did none of those things, for one thing.

24:11 Speaker 1: The reason I didn't is I didn't believe any of that, it's just it's not in my heart it didn't.

24:15 Speaker 5: Yeah, like it didn't.

24:16 Speaker 5: You didn't say those things because you didn't it didn't register, that's why I'm too.

24:21 Speaker 5: Yeah, when, when?

24:22 Speaker 5: Anywhere in the books?

24:23 Speaker 5: Where does it say I, timothy williams, the writer of this book, decree that everyone was follow me?

24:28 Speaker 5: Or in the multitude of sermons?

24:30 Speaker 5: Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's tons of recorded sermons or the awards given by the congregation.

24:40 Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm the world's worst cult leader, all right.

24:42 Speaker 1: But being examples to the flock Jacob, did I not work harder than anybody else in the congregation?

24:48 Speaker 1: Yes.

24:49 Speaker 1: Did I not give more than anybody in the congregation?

24:54 Speaker 1: Yes.

24:54 Speaker 1: And did I not love deeper than anybody in the congregation?

24:56 Speaker 1: Yes.

24:56 Speaker 1: And that I not love deeper than anybody in the congregation?

24:59 Speaker 1: Yes.

25:01 Speaker 1: All of those things are true and our conscience is clear before God.

25:06 Speaker 1: We are, we are, accountable for our words.

25:08 Speaker 1: Mr Simmons, we don't get promoted if we lied.

25:11 Speaker 1: Well, unless you consider hell a promotion, which I don't consider.

25:15 Speaker 1: That Plus, there's no joy in lies.

25:17 Speaker 1: You know we talk about hell.

25:19 Speaker 1: I remember were you afraid of going to hell?

25:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, mr Simmons, that only lasts about six weeks, meaning when people come to Jesus Christ.

25:27 Speaker 1: Hell only motivates people for about six weeks.

25:29 Speaker 1: It gets their attention.

25:30 Speaker 1: They come in.

25:31 Speaker 1: I'm not telling you they're not ever convicted about it or there's not fear and trembling and working out your salvation, but it was not a motivating factor.

25:37 Speaker 1: You cannot motivate people with the threat of hell.

25:41 Speaker 1: No, you can awaken them, you can get them to think, you can humble them, you can get their attention, but you cannot motivate them with hell.

25:50 Speaker 1: Otherwise, every demon would be a saint.

25:53 Speaker 1: In fact, every criminal you prosecute and all the heavy laws you like to bring on everybody, wouldn't everybody then become law-abiding citizens?

26:03 Speaker 1: If hell worked, correct, if pressure worked, yes.

26:06 Speaker 1: If prosecution worked, yes.

26:07 Speaker 1: If this heavy-handed thing, wouldn't it keep everybody in line?

26:10 Speaker 1: Yes, well, for the last, I could tell, washington State's in the worst shape it's ever been in terms of legal things, moral things or whatever, right?

26:17 Speaker 5: Yes, the crime is up.

26:19 Speaker 5: Everything is worse than it's ever been before.

26:21 Speaker 5: So clearly their tactics are not working.

26:24 Speaker 1: Right, and so they want to make sure mine doesn't work.

26:31 Speaker 1: Obviously for what's called love and grace.

26:32 Speaker 1: Again, hell is never a motivating factor.

26:33 Speaker 1: It wake.

26:33 Speaker 1: That's why, when you said, were you afraid of hell?

26:36 Speaker 1: And that's why you kept quiet, that is the most bogus lie and I keep saying they're all the most bogus lies Hell wasn't even emphasized.

26:45 Speaker 1: In fact, I think at one point the defense attorney turned and said well, isn't the greater lie to cover up if this were going on?

26:51 Speaker 1: And the manipulated accuser said well, I don't understand the question.

26:55 Speaker 1: Well, somebody that's afraid of hell would understand that question.

27:00 Speaker 1: True, but because in fact I think there's maybe four sermons on hell and they go back 30 years ago.

27:07 Speaker 1: Again, I'm repeating myself over and over again, but it is not a motivating factor at all.

27:12 Speaker 1: It only gets people's attention and that's why God just doesn't hang you.

27:17 Speaker 1: Look, if God came to Simmons and hung him over the fires of hell and then backed off, he's not going to repent because of that.

27:24 Speaker 1: There's all kinds of people that God could do that and bring them back, and they're going to go right back to sinning, All the people that are screaming in hell right now.

27:32 Speaker 1: Give us another chance.

27:33 Speaker 1: Let us out.

27:34 Speaker 1: God knows that if he pulled them out, pulled back the fires and brought them back, they'd go right back to their sending.

27:39 Speaker 1: It doesn't change the heart.

27:41 Speaker 1: It does bring about justice.

27:43 Speaker 1: It does bring about God's justice and it does wake us up to get there.

27:48 Speaker 1: It got my attention when I was first a child.

27:51 Speaker 1: Well, used to be when you raised your children you say don't do that, that's bad, that was supposed to be.

27:55 Speaker 1: When you raised your children say don't do that, that's bad, that was supposed to be a scary thing, right.

27:58 Speaker 1: And the idea is to a child that's coming in, you can impress that child with threats of saying no, don't do that, a lot easier than you can an 18 year old correct.

28:08 Speaker 1: Well, that's the whole point.

28:09 Speaker 1: It works with children that are first coming to jesus christ.

28:13 Speaker 1: It works with people that are first coming in and needing to understand look, your soul is in jeopardy, you need to wake up.

28:19 Speaker 1: But it will not I know I'm repeating, will not carry people through, and so that wasn't a major element within sound doctrine church First Peter 5, 4, Jacob, would you read that for us again please?

28:34 Speaker 5: And when the chief shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.

28:40 Speaker 1: The chief shepherd Peter is preaching that he is supposed to feed the sheep and he is supposed to be a shepherd, but we all are focused in on the great shepherd.

28:51 Speaker 1: At Sound Doctrine Church, how leadership work was determining what God's will was.

28:54 Speaker 1: At Sound Doctrine Church, how leadership work was determining what God's will was praying for God to provide the strength, wisdom, the means and the power to do that will.

29:01 Speaker 1: And so everybody's attention was upon Jesus Christ and I was just there to oversee, to protect, to teach, to guide, to lay down my life, to set the example in selfless love.

29:14 Speaker 1: To set the example when being persecuted.

29:17 Speaker 1: To set the example in selfless love.

29:18 Speaker 1: To set the example when being persecuted.

29:18 Speaker 1: To set the example in godliness.

29:20 Speaker 1: Jacob played the no hireling again and we're going to start diving into that scripture.

29:30 Speaker 2: It's Prosecutor.

29:31 Speaker 2: Jason Simmons.

29:32 Speaker 2: Bible Study Time Part 2.

29:35 Speaker 2: Topic Leadership by Shepherding.

29:39 Speaker 2: The lesson Timothy Williams is not a hireling, the definition for hireling one who is hired serving for personal benefit.

29:50 Speaker 2: The Consider Podcast.

29:55 Speaker 2: Podcast Examining today's wisdom, folly and madness wwwconsiderinfoinfo.

30:11 Speaker 1: Jacob, go ahead and play the file for this section of Scripture, because it's a little bit long and I want people to get a broad brush stroke of where we're going to head on this thing.

30:20 Speaker 4: Jesus used this figure of speech, but they didn't understand what he was telling them.

30:25 Speaker 4: Therefore, jesus said again I tell you the truth.

30:29 Speaker 4: I am the gate for the sheep.

30:31 Speaker 4: All whoever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.

30:37 Speaker 4: I am the gate.

30:39 Speaker 4: Whoever enters through me will be saved.

30:42 Speaker 4: He will come in and go out and find pasture.

30:46 Speaker 4: The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.

30:50 Speaker 4: I have come that they might have life and have it to the full.

30:54 Speaker 4: I am the good shepherd.

30:56 Speaker 4: The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

30:59 Speaker 4: The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep.

31:02 Speaker 4: So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away.

31:08 Speaker 4: Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.

Shepherding vs. Lording Over Others

31:11 Speaker 4: The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

31:17 Speaker 4: I am the good shepherd.

31:19 Speaker 4: I know my sheep and my sheep know me, just as the Father knows me, and I know the Father.

31:27 Speaker 4: And I lay down my life for the sheep.

31:31 Speaker 4: John, chapter 10.

31:34 Speaker 1: Jacob, did you catch the insult?

31:36 Speaker 1: No, well, let's look at that.

31:41 Speaker 1: Jesus just insulted everybody that came before him.

31:46 Speaker 1: Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

31:52 Speaker 1: We see that all the time.

31:54 Speaker 1: Therefore, jesus said again I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep.

32:03 Speaker 1: All whoever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.

32:08 Speaker 1: Who's he talking about?

32:09 Speaker 1: All the other prophets, that's right.

32:12 Speaker 1: Moses, jeremiah, all theideon, go down the line, right?

32:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, he just me.

32:20 Speaker 1: Technically, he insulted everybody.

32:22 Speaker 1: Let me read that again.

32:24 Speaker 1: I tell you the truth.

32:26 Speaker 1: I am the gate for the sheep.

32:27 Speaker 1: All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.

32:33 Speaker 1: Well, it's pretty evident all through the Old Testament.

32:35 Speaker 1: They didn't listen to him.

32:35 Speaker 1: Right, correct?

32:37 Speaker 1: The point he's making is Simmons, I am unclean, I'm not worthy to be looked up to.

32:43 Speaker 1: He's the great shepherd, he's the one that's holy, he is the example, and if God measured every prophet, every godly man, by his holiness, we come up as thieves and robbers.

32:57 Speaker 1: We may be holy to our contemporaries, but according to God, the truth is we're undone and we're in need of grace.

33:07 Speaker 1: Does that make sense.

33:09 Speaker 1: Yes, it says they were thieves and robbers and they did not listen to them.

33:14 Speaker 1: That's everybody All right.

33:16 Speaker 1: Jesus goes on to say.

33:17 Speaker 1: And this is why Jesus Christ was preached at Sound Doctrine Church, worshiped at Sound Doctrine Church.

33:23 Speaker 1: That's why every scripture, every commandment, everything was pointed back to Jesus Christ.

33:28 Speaker 1: Because compared to Jesus Christ, we are undone, no matter who we are.

33:33 Speaker 1: I am the gate.

33:34 Speaker 1: Jesus says.

33:35 Speaker 1: Whoever enters through me will be saved.

33:38 Speaker 1: Nobody was in their fear of losing their salvation, because if they went to Jesus Christ they will be saved.

33:46 Speaker 1: He will come in and go out and find pasture.

33:48 Speaker 1: The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.

33:51 Speaker 1: I have come that they may have life and have it to the full.

33:56 Speaker 1: There was a time period when most people in Sound Doctrine Church had the abundant life and the taste of it.

34:01 Speaker 1: You managed to scatter, destroy and many left, because Jesus promised in the last days the love of most will go cold.

34:09 Speaker 1: Many would leave the faith and hate and betray one another.

34:12 Speaker 1: I don't know how much of the truth I can give you, mr Simmons.

34:14 Speaker 1: That you use those people in that situation to prosecute Jesus Christ is beyond shameful.

34:21 Speaker 1: Any comments, jacob?

34:23 Speaker 1: No.

34:24 Speaker 1: Jesus goes on to repeat Again I am the good shepherd, everybody else was thieves and robbers.

34:29 Speaker 1: The good shepherd lays down his life for his sheep.

34:32 Speaker 1: The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep.

34:36 Speaker 1: So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandoned the sheep and runs away.

34:40 Speaker 1: What Jesus Christ is pointing out to that, if I'm following Jesus Christ and I'm saying me personally, he's going to make me into his image, correct, jacob?

34:51 Speaker 1: Have I ever betrayed anybody?

34:52 Speaker 1: No, I have been betrayed many, many times, but I haven't.

34:59 Speaker 1: I've laid down my life.

35:00 Speaker 1: Even through all the persecution and the prosecutions and the things that went on, did I abandon any of the situation or even Malcolm Frazier, or the truth or any aspect?

35:09 Speaker 1: Try to gain for myself no proof.

35:14 Speaker 1: I mean absolute, 100% proof that Sound Doctrine Church was not about following a cult leader named Timothy Williams was the fact that when the pressure came in and it came in hard and heavy, because you did the pressure, prosecutor Simmons and all of you five King County prosecutors and judges did I abandon Malcolm Frazier?

35:34 Speaker 1: Did I abandon the situation?

35:36 Speaker 1: No, I went down to the bitter end because any other shepherd?

35:40 Speaker 1: What does every other church do?

35:41 Speaker 1: Somebody gets accused and what do they immediately do Jacob.

35:43 Speaker 1: Back away, back away.

35:45 Speaker 1: He's removed from his position and this over here they immediately abandon.

35:49 Speaker 1: There's not even a presumption of innocence.

35:51 Speaker 1: It's automatically that you're guilty because everybody's trying to save their church, everybody's trying to save their church, everybody's trying to save their position, their money, their influence.

36:00 Speaker 1: If I was at all about me, I would have tried to save Wine Press Publishing, sound Doctrine Church and whatever.

36:08 Speaker 1: What else did we have going on?

36:09 Speaker 1: Tons of stuff.

36:10 Speaker 5: Well, your own wife.

36:11 Speaker 5: Usually that's super common within a church, even on that level, besides persecution.

36:17 Speaker 5: But you know what I mean.

36:18 Speaker 5: Oh, he's going to step away to you know, help his family.

36:22 Speaker 5: He's going to step away to do this.

36:24 Speaker 5: He's going to step away because he's got all these other things on his plate.

36:27 Speaker 1: You certainly don't step up and say this is the truth and you're all wrong, correct.

36:30 Speaker 1: How much more proof can I offer you than that?

36:34 Speaker 1: In fact, there was one lady in town my name is Timothy, by the way, which has to do with being faithful standing by Paul, and she made a comment to somebody else.

36:44 Speaker 1: She goes yeah, his name really is Timothy.

36:50 Speaker 1: It was very clear.

36:51 Speaker 1: I was not about saving me.

36:52 Speaker 1: In fact, I was putting myself in harm's way over and over again because I'm being made in the image of Jesus Christ, not because I'm anything In my sinful nature.

37:01 Speaker 1: I'm a thief and I'm a robber.

37:03 Speaker 1: I'm all the things that are bad and sinful, but I'm in the process of repenting of those things, picking up my cross, hating my own life, allowing the things to happen to me that God has ordained in order that I might be purified in his holiness and in his righteousness.

37:20 Speaker 1: I am the good shepherd.

37:22 Speaker 1: Jesus says.

37:23 Speaker 1: The good shepherd lays down his life for his sheep, and I did that all through your little persecution game.

37:28 Speaker 1: The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep.

37:32 Speaker 1: So when he sees the wolf coming and you guys were certainly you made yourselves the wolves.

37:36 Speaker 1: You're again the ones that said what are you going to do when you can't meet him?

37:39 Speaker 1: Or you purposely ran us out of town?

37:43 Speaker 1: If there ever was a malicious prosecution, it's evident everywhere in this situation.

37:49 Speaker 1: It says when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away.

37:53 Speaker 1: Jacob, did I abandon the sheep and run away?

37:57 Speaker 1: No, not on any level.

38:00 Speaker 1: Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.

38:03 Speaker 1: Well, you accomplished that.

38:05 Speaker 1: You did that for sure.

38:07 Speaker 1: The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

38:13 Speaker 1: If I was in it for a paycheck, if I was, you know, you believe the lie that I stole Wine Press Publishing and you went with that.

38:20 Speaker 1: And Satisberg even sent me secondhand messages saying, yeah, we're going to prosecute you, we know you did that.

38:27 Speaker 1: And there's a whole bunch of yeah.

38:28 Speaker 1: I'd welcome to bring it on.

38:29 Speaker 1: And then we have a video out there of the accountant proving with facts, with evidence, with paperwork, that I did not steal the business.

38:37 Speaker 1: Have you prosecuted those people for perjury and for getting King County prosecutors all excited and putting an innocent man in prison?

38:44 Speaker 1: No, because you care nothing.

38:46 Speaker 1: You want to hold on to your life.

38:48 Speaker 1: You're a thief and a robber and you will not lay down your life for the truth on any level.

38:54 Speaker 1: So you're willing to leave this massive, wide destruction in place and an innocent man in prison, even though we have exposed all the lies and all the things that Detective McCall are up to and all the hate crime that went on, all these people and how everything is just clouded up with a sinful accusation.

39:14 Speaker 1: You're willing to do that and to eventually face judgment with that.

39:19 Speaker 1: Because why?

39:20 Speaker 1: You're a thief and you're a robber.

39:22 Speaker 1: You love yourself and so you're stealing from God.

39:26 Speaker 1: It says the man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

39:31 Speaker 1: Jesus is laying out a contrast.

39:34 Speaker 1: This is who you are, the shepherd, apart from me.

39:39 Speaker 1: Jesus says I am the good shepherd, I know my sheep and my sheep know me.

39:45 Speaker 1: This is the truth and the reality.

39:48 Speaker 1: I know jesus christ and he knows me and he's making me in his image.

39:53 Speaker 1: Why do you think we were prosecuted and persecuted?

39:57 Speaker 1: Just as the father knows me and I know the father and I lay down my life for the sheep you know.

40:02 Speaker 1: Jesus is saying do you notice the humility here, jacob?

40:05 Speaker 1: He goes just as I know the father and the father knows me.

40:10 Speaker 1: Right, there's no grandstanding here by Jesus.

40:13 Speaker 1: He's not going.

40:14 Speaker 1: I know the father and the Father knows me.

40:17 Speaker 1: Don't you hear pastors bragging and boasting about God's ministry and all this going on?

40:22 Speaker 1: He states a fact that I know the Father and the Father knows me.

40:26 Speaker 1: But there's no boasting, there's no pride, there's no.

40:30 Speaker 1: What are the adjectives I'm looking for here, jacob?

40:32 Speaker 1: There's no exaltation of who he is.

40:35 Speaker 5: Yeah, there's no boasting.

40:36 Speaker 5: The focus isn't on him, so he doesn't go on and on about himself and how amazing he is.

40:42 Speaker 1: Right.

40:42 Speaker 1: And then he says I know and I lay down my life for the sheep.

40:45 Speaker 1: It comes back to the humility.

40:47 Speaker 1: And remember, Mr Simmons, since we're following the great shepherd and God is demanding or guiding, however you want to look at it, that Jesus Christ lay down his life on the cross for the sheep, constantly giving himself to the sheep, and we're following that particular shepherd.

41:05 Speaker 1: Where is it going to lead for us to do?

41:07 Speaker 1: Everything at Sound Doctrine Church was done for Jesus Christ, not for Timothy Williams, not in any way, shape or form.

41:16 Speaker 1: We're probably going to need to stop there and we'll continue on with this on the next podcast.

41:25 Speaker 3: Nothing on the Consider podcast should be considered legal or life advice.

41:28 Speaker 3: Each is admonished to seek a holy God and obey by picking up a cross to follow Jesus.

41:35 Speaker 3: The Consider Podcast.