Leadership Part 1 : Prosecutor Simmons Bible Study Time

Introduction and Overview

0:02 Speaker 1: prosecutor jason simmons and judge laurie k smith thought they already knew the answer, but we'll go ahead and answer the questions truthfully welcome to the consider podcast, where we examine today's wisdom, folly and madness.

0:19 Speaker 2: more information can be found at wwwconsiderinfo now here.

0:25 Speaker 2: Here are your hosts, timothy and Jacob.

0:32 Speaker 1: Jacob, you were assigned to be in the courtroom video recording everything.

0:39 Speaker 1: For what?

0:40 Speaker 1: 28 days right.

0:42 Speaker 3: Something like that.

0:43 Speaker 3: I don't remember remember the exact day, but it was a good chunk, although there was a few days.

0:46 Speaker 1: You know I wasn't there, but I was there for most of it oh, yeah, it was, but it was a good almost a month, I guess, if you count february month sure, oh, go ahead no no go ahead.

0:58 Speaker 1: Prosecutor simmons wanted to know.

1:00 Speaker 1: Well, he's asking questions.

1:02 Speaker 1: He thinks he already has the answers.

1:04 Speaker 1: So they're not questions like I want to know.

1:08 Speaker 1: They're questions like I am sure all of this is evil kind of question.

1:12 Speaker 1: I'm gonna trap you and put you in a corner and expose you for the vile criminal you are.

1:18 Speaker 1: Uh, though, I wasn't charged with any crimes, right?

1:21 Speaker 3: this is true.

1:23 Speaker 1: And the things that he was accusing me of are not crimes.

1:26 Speaker 1: No they're not yeah they're not even crimes.

1:28 Speaker 3: There's nothing illegal.

1:30 Speaker 1: In fact, isn't it legally protected to be in leadership of a church?

1:35 Speaker 3: Supposedly that's what they say.

1:38 Speaker 1: That's what they say.

1:39 Speaker 1: His questions were what was the kind of leadership, how was it?

1:45 Speaker 1: And he doesn't talk in complete sentences, so I'm just reading what he said who was in charge and how did it work?

1:54 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to answer that question and begin that process.

1:58 Speaker 1: Now we're going to swing back, probably, to fellowship and what that means.

2:02 Speaker 1: So we're pausing here in a moment.

2:04 Speaker 1: We're talking about leadership because we're going to come back to it and explain all of that in context, a thing that King County courts do not like very much at all.

2:15 Speaker 1: Jacob, go ahead and play the file and let's begin the discussion Begin the discussion.

2:28 Speaker 4: It's time for some serious clarity.

2:30 Speaker 4: It's time to establish a solid fact or two.

2:34 Speaker 4: It's time for facts of evidence and facts of reliable truths.

2:42 Speaker 4: Timothy Williams is the complete and total opposite of prosecutor Jason Simmons' lies.

2:49 Speaker 4: Not just opposite with some shades of grey, but opposites, as white is from black or light is from darkness.

2:54 Speaker 4: Acts 20.18-21.

2:57 Speaker 4: You know how I lived the whole time.

3:00 Speaker 4: I was with you From the first day I came into the province of Asia.

3:04 Speaker 4: I served the Lord with great humility and with tears, although I was severely tested by the plots of the Jews.

3:11 Speaker 4: You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you, but have taught you publicly and from house to house.

3:20 Speaker 4: I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

3:29 Speaker 4: The Consider Podcast Examining today's wisdom, folly and madness wwwconsiderinfo.

3:42 Speaker 1: Jacob, how long have you known me?

3:47 Speaker 3: Technically my whole life.

3:49 Speaker 1: And that would be roughly without giving your exact age.

3:52 Speaker 3: Oh well, 20 years, let's do that.

3:57 Speaker 1: Okay, let's do 20 years.

3:58 Speaker 1: You knew me when I was just beginning.

4:03 Speaker 1: Quote-unquote leadership and that's what we're talking about here is leadership.

4:06 Speaker 1: Now, everybody needs to understand very clearly every single thing that Prosecutor Simmons and Judge Lori K Smith and the Gang of Five painted me to be.

4:18 Speaker 1: I am the complete opposite of Correct Correct, complete opposite of correct Correct.

4:25 Speaker 1: What would you say, without going too deep at just the moment, what would be my style of leadership.

4:36 Speaker 3: Style of leadership.

4:38 Speaker 1: There are all kinds of leadership.

4:39 Speaker 1: I know the person doing the hate crime tried to pay me um as being like Hitler, because I've studied some world war two books.

4:46 Speaker 1: So that was one of the slanders, although they they went around.

4:49 Speaker 1: Detective grant mccall said that everything came back to me.

4:54 Speaker 1: He knew that for sure because of his non-investigation and self-righteous baptist doctrine that believed only the king j version in 1611, with these and thou is the appropriate Bible to read, so that every Bible verse I'm reading at and we're looking at here today is an apostasy to Enumclaw detectives and police.

5:17 Speaker 3: Well we could to steal from Detective McCall?

5:22 Speaker 3: I think the complete opposite.

5:24 Speaker 3: Yeah, everything did not point to you.

5:26 Speaker 3: Everything pointed back to Jesus, to the Lord, to living for him.

5:32 Speaker 3: That is the truth.

5:35 Speaker 1: And even more so, um, meaning, how did leadership work?

5:41 Speaker 1: Mr Sim?

5:42 Speaker 1: You know, the reason I'm kind of hesitating is it's a poured out situation.

5:45 Speaker 1: It's not leadership like King County prosecutors.

5:48 Speaker 1: There wasn't a hierarchy of I'm at the top and then you had vice leadership, and then you know vice leadership under that leadership and then that leadership.

5:57 Speaker 1: This isn't King County's prosecutor's office where you know you have the head elected prosecutor and then you have the minions that go on the line.

6:07 Speaker 1: Of course, the women are all on top in terms of hierarchy and authority and power, because they're women, which means they're intrinsically more moral than men.

6:14 Speaker 3: I'll tell you a quick story because you probably don't even remember this, but I was quite young.

6:19 Speaker 3: Actually I'm like an early kind of teenager and I'll make the story short.

6:22 Speaker 3: There was no, actually, right, so I'm like I'm like an early kind of teenager and I'll make the story short.

6:25 Speaker 3: Uh, this is the yeah there was.

6:27 Speaker 3: There was no like uber closed off, you could never talk to you or never interact with you.

6:34 Speaker 3: Um, there was all I can remember because I was actually quite young.

6:38 Speaker 3: Right, there was a prayer meeting.

6:39 Speaker 3: It wasn't even like a prayer meeting.

6:40 Speaker 3: A decision need to be made and so, within the church, right, it was.

6:44 Speaker 3: Uh, you know, had to do with the ministry and what to move forward on what to do, and so you let anybody who was there and I was even just like a little teenager, a little snotty nose teenager, anybody was there like, okay, let's, let's go ahead and pray about this.

6:54 Speaker 3: Any, whoever was in the room.

6:56 Speaker 3: There was no like well, you need to leave because, I don't know, you haven't been in sound doctrine long enough or something.

7:01 Speaker 3: So we all had, we prayed, right then, and there, and then every and everyone went around the room to to share what they felt like they heard from the Lord and I I I just have this memory because the I have, it's a vivid memory that there was just some like I I'm saying this, I don't know who it was.

7:17 Speaker 3: It was like a random person, like somebody who literally was just kind of like hanging around, sound doctrine, right, and like he was included in the prayer meeting.

7:24 Speaker 3: He was allowed to like say what he felt like he heard from the Lord.

7:27 Speaker 3: It was yeah.

7:29 Speaker 3: So this whole concept that there was this hierarchy leadership that looked down on everyone and you were the evil cult leader is just lies, because I was there and I saw that like everybody was included.

7:42 Speaker 3: There was no you making the decisions, it was literally you could go around the room and share what you felt, like you heard the Lord say.

7:50 Speaker 1: Correct always.

7:52 Speaker 1: Let's look at Philippians 2, verse 17.

7:54 Speaker 1: Philippians 2, verse 17.

7:58 Speaker 1: Go ahead and read that when you get there to Jacob.

8:02 Speaker 3: But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you.

8:14 Speaker 1: Philippians 2.17 describes what leadership and we might as well say I was in leadership, I was probably.

8:23 Speaker 1: If you wanted to rank it, which I wouldn't want to do because that's not to describe what it was I'll tell you what it was.

8:30 Speaker 1: It's shepherding, which is different than leadership.

8:33 Speaker 1: I follow the great shepherd, which is Jesus Christ, so I'm being made and molded into his image.

8:41 Speaker 1: So it's shepherding meaning you've got a whole flock of people.

8:45 Speaker 1: I'm part of the flock, but whatever I've been appointed as I don't know head sheep or whatever as you move along, the whole group moves along together.

8:53 Speaker 1: It's not.

8:54 Speaker 1: You don't see a committee of sheep, do you no?

8:57 Speaker 1: And but you find them corralled or moved in a certain direction, but it's always done as a group and it's done in such a way as to protect the flock.

9:06 Speaker 1: Are they called a flock, by the way?

9:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess I think.

9:09 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's called a flock.

9:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, a flock of sheep so, and it's all done in a way that's protected, but moving in a certain direction.

9:17 Speaker 1: It's Philippians 2.17.

9:18 Speaker 1: Just as Jesus was poured out for us, in the same way I was poured out.

9:23 Speaker 1: It was a constant Simmons.

9:26 Speaker 1: You have no clue actually no frame of reference just how much work and life force is given away every single day to shepherd God's people.

9:37 Speaker 1: It is not an easy thing.

9:38 Speaker 1: It was beyond my power.

9:39 Speaker 1: I had to cry out to the Lord.

9:41 Speaker 1: I needed his strength, I needed his wisdom, I needed his love and I had to grow.

9:46 Speaker 1: At the same time.

9:47 Speaker 1: It wasn't like I was baptized and then made into this leader, just ready to go.

9:51 Speaker 1: God's crushing me, god's making me carry my cross.

9:55 Speaker 1: At the same time, I'm supposed to be leading other people in the same direction to him, for which he's going to crucify them and put them on the cross and transform them and have them perfect holiness.

Prosecutor's Questions and Their Implications

10:06 Speaker 1: In short, I'm doing the same thing that I'm just showing them that they're doing, and God has chosen how he's going to arrange the body.

10:13 Speaker 1: And I was placed in that position of leadership.

10:16 Speaker 1: It was a style of shepherding, not a corporate kind of thing, not an authority kind of thing, although we'll get into it.

10:24 Speaker 1: There is a certain amount of authority, and the reason why I'm laying this down now is because we're going to get into specifics where Paul in Scripture talks about leadership.

10:33 Speaker 1: There was an authority there, but the danger here is, of course and this is exactly what Simmons and Judge Lowry K Smith did is they take their dark mind, their evil heart and all the lies and the wickedness that they do and they interpret what leadership is.

10:49 Speaker 1: So the lingo can sometimes be the same, but there is no consistency, there's no agreement.

10:56 Speaker 1: It's light from darkness.

10:57 Speaker 1: Am I making clear what we're about to approach Jacob?

11:00 Speaker 3: Yeah.

11:03 Speaker 1: Philippians 2.17,.

11:04 Speaker 1: But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering, everybody was constantly taking from me.

11:11 Speaker 1: I'm not whining, I'm just telling you what it is.

11:14 Speaker 1: It was a constant take from Tim.

11:16 Speaker 1: I need advice.

11:17 Speaker 1: What should I do?

11:18 Speaker 1: What does this scripture mean?

11:20 Speaker 1: How does this apply?

11:21 Speaker 1: What should be done over here?

11:22 Speaker 1: It was a constant mean.

11:25 Speaker 1: How does this apply?

11:26 Speaker 1: What should be done over here?

11:28 Speaker 1: It was a constant, never-ending need, need, need.

11:32 Speaker 1: There were not sheep coming to me filling me up.

11:33 Speaker 1: That's just not the nature of what it was.

11:34 Speaker 1: But even if I'm being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, in other words, the sheep need attention, they need wisdom, they need guidance.

11:46 Speaker 1: I was preaching three sermons a week.

11:47 Speaker 1: I'm not whining, I'm not complaining, I'm just telling you what it was.

11:52 Speaker 1: It is an exhausting business and I have no other word for it business labor of love to shepherd a church.

12:01 Speaker 1: And that's why Paul says I am glad and rejoice with all of you.

12:06 Speaker 1: At least that's the way it's supposed to be.

12:07 Speaker 1: Any thoughts, jacob?

12:09 Speaker 1: Before we move on?

12:10 Speaker 1: No, let's go to Mark, chapter 10, verse 42.

12:14 Speaker 1: Then Jesus called them together, the apostles, and said you know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lorded over them.

12:24 Speaker 1: That those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lorded over them, that's you, mr Simmons.

12:29 Speaker 1: That's you, judge Lori K Smith.

12:34 Speaker 1: You lorded over us.

12:35 Speaker 1: We're prosecutors, we're police, we're the ones in authority.

12:36 Speaker 1: I have the gavel, I'm woman of the year.

12:38 Speaker 1: So when you come into my courtroom, you stand up because I'm the honorable woman of the year, judge Lori K Smith, and these are my minions.

12:46 Speaker 1: This is Jason Simmons, over here.

12:48 Speaker 1: We're buds and we're going to nail you, literally, we're going to nail you.

12:52 Speaker 1: You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them.

12:57 Speaker 1: Is it not held over us all the time that they are an authority?

13:01 Speaker 1: They know what's best, how you should arrange your family, how the church should be done.

13:05 Speaker 1: Is that not true, jacob?

13:07 Speaker 1: Yes, it goes on to say, and their high officials exercise authority over them.

13:14 Speaker 1: I like that word exercise, because what you bump into are these officials that, for no real reason, they just say this is the way it is or this is what you have to do.

13:24 Speaker 1: They like to exercise.

13:24 Speaker 1: Think of people that exercise.

13:25 Speaker 1: You know they just say this is the way it is or this is what you have to do.

13:25 Speaker 1: They like to exercise.

13:26 Speaker 1: Think of people that exercise, go running or do pushups.

13:30 Speaker 1: I know some people that just enjoy exercising, right, correct?

13:35 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's exactly what the officials over us, they lord over us, and they just enjoy flexing their muscles.

13:41 Speaker 1: You have to do it this way.

13:42 Speaker 1: That what the rule is.

13:43 Speaker 1: You have to pay the fine.

13:44 Speaker 1: We don't have to tell you.

13:46 Speaker 1: We can keep this in the dark.

13:47 Speaker 1: We hear it constantly and they just like, even if it's just a simple basic request, like tell me this.

13:53 Speaker 1: Over here, we heard back from the judges in king county saying, well, we don't have to tell you, okay?

13:58 Speaker 1: Well, really, you just can't be human, you just can't answer the question.

14:02 Speaker 1: Didn't say you couldn't answer the question, sure.

14:04 Speaker 1: You said you didn't have to.

14:06 Speaker 3: Didn't have to yeah.

14:07 Speaker 1: So all the humanity is drained out of King County courts.

14:10 Speaker 1: All the humanity is drained out of Judge Lori K Smith.

14:13 Speaker 1: Certainly all the humanity was drained out of the prosecutors.

14:17 Speaker 1: They would not listen.

14:18 Speaker 1: It was a lot of.

14:19 Speaker 1: This came down to a power play.

14:21 Speaker 1: We didn't bow down to them like the rest of Washington state.

14:26 Speaker 1: We were submissive, but we didn't bow down and they didn't like it and they were going to make sure that we knew they didn't like it, right?

14:34 Speaker 1: Well, mr Simmons, that's not how the leadership at Sound Doctrine Church worked.

14:41 Speaker 1: Mark 10, 43 says Jesus says not so with you.

14:45 Speaker 1: It is the complete opposite of who you are, mr Simmons, and who you think we were.

14:52 Speaker 1: Not so with you.

14:54 Speaker 1: Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant.

15:00 Speaker 1: I was at the mercy of everybody who needed and wanted attention and let me tell you it was great.

15:07 Speaker 1: Not only that in the Lord, I am responsible before Jesus Christ to present everybody perfect in Jesus Christ.

15:15 Speaker 1: Do you know how much effort that takes, mr Simmons?

15:17 Speaker 1: Well, of course not.

15:18 Speaker 1: You know, most people in the church didn't know how much effort that takes.

15:22 Speaker 1: Right, jacob, correct?

15:23 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got a congregation.

15:25 Speaker 1: I'll go wild here, I'll go crazy, because Simmons likes numbers.

15:29 Speaker 1: Let's say, at one point we probably had a peak of 30, maybe 40.

15:32 Speaker 1: Every single one of those individuals I was responsible for, presenting them perfect in Jesus Christ, protecting them in Jesus Christ, preaching to them in Jesus Christ, laying down my life for them.

15:44 Speaker 1: That means every person that came to me and believe me.

15:47 Speaker 1: They all did some multiple times during the day.

15:50 Speaker 1: There are weaker parts of the body that need constant attention and I needed to know from the Lord how to serve them.

15:56 Speaker 1: What to say, what to do, what not to do, what to say okay, it's time to go here, and everybody's at a different growth spot.

16:02 Speaker 1: No good parent treats every child the same.

16:07 Speaker 1: You might have a four-year-old and you might have a 14-year-old.

16:10 Speaker 1: Would you treat them the same, jacob?

16:12 Speaker 3: No, very different.

16:15 Speaker 1: Well, actually, in today's cases, I imagine the 14-year-old's more like the four-year-old.

16:18 Speaker 1: But aside issue from that little point, each one is treated different according to what their maturity or lack of maturity, their skills, or who they are, or what they do, or what they like or what they don't like it goes down and the situations are coming, not to mention being persecuted, attacked, letting the word of God form in them.

16:35 Speaker 1: You get the idea, mr Simmons, this is a poured out situation that is beyond my effort, my wisdom, my strength.

16:43 Speaker 1: And so when you say what kind of leadership, you are playing the fool.

16:47 Speaker 1: You have no clue nor understanding, nor did you seek it out, and those that were telling you the lies out there knew that you had no interest in the truth, because it is a labor of love for Jesus Christ, and if it's not, that it's totally worthless.

17:03 Speaker 1: Not so with you.

17:05 Speaker 1: Instead, jesus said whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant.

17:10 Speaker 1: What style of leadership was it, mr Simmons?

17:13 Speaker 1: I was a slave to everybody.

17:16 Speaker 1: A slave to everybody, verse 44.

17:20 Speaker 1: And whoever wants to be first must be slave of all.

17:25 Speaker 1: For even the Son of man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.

17:35 Speaker 1: I'm being made in the image of Jesus Christ, mr Simmons.

17:39 Speaker 1: Therefore, I'm a slave to all, and you're going to see that reflected as we go through the scriptures.

17:46 Speaker 1: Anything else with that, jacob?

17:48 Speaker 1: No, well, let's go back again to Acts, chapter 20, verse 18.

17:53 Speaker 1: We kind of heard that in the clip before.

17:55 Speaker 1: I want to read through it again.

17:56 Speaker 1: Man, we are moving so fast, but whatever been forced to do it.

18:01 Speaker 1: Acts, chapter 20, verse 18.

18:03 Speaker 1: When they arrived, he said to them you know how I lived the whole time I was with you, jacob.

18:09 Speaker 1: There's no way that I'm perfect.

18:12 Speaker 1: We're not even or you think you're perfect.

18:20 Speaker 1: Why ask me that stupid question?

18:20 Speaker 1: I'm being driven to the ground in front of the living God.

18:22 Speaker 1: He comes to me day in and day out, hour after hour, showing me my weakness.

18:28 Speaker 1: That is the nature of it.

18:30 Speaker 1: I'm not a prosecutor that has a judge that puffs me up, pats me on the back, winks at me when I do bad things and protects me.

18:37 Speaker 1: I have a judge who says oh okay, timothy, I can't use this and I can't use that over here.

18:42 Speaker 1: And besides that, you need to mature up over here and we need to take care of this over here, and you're coming to me pretty soon because you're getting older, so I'm going to just crush you a little bit more in this area today.

18:51 Speaker 1: That's the kind of Lord that I worship, that I serve and, above all, I love.

18:59 Speaker 1: You know how I lived the whole time I was with you, jacob.

19:02 Speaker 1: Has my life been consistent?

19:04 Speaker 1: Yes, very consistent.

19:06 Speaker 1: Have there been these huge ups and downs and, oh, I fall into sin over here and then I come back here unrighteous.

19:13 Speaker 1: Have you seen these giant swings of anything that would produce what we would call inconsistency?

19:19 Speaker 1: No, my life is solidly consistent.

19:23 Speaker 1: Do I stumble?

19:24 Speaker 1: Do I make mistakes?

19:25 Speaker 1: Of course that's part of it, but it's extremely consistent.

19:29 Speaker 1: You know how I live.

19:31 Speaker 1: The whole time I was with you.

19:32 Speaker 1: Why do you think these false witnesses had to become false witnesses?

19:36 Speaker 1: Because my life is very consistent.

19:38 Speaker 1: If I'd had one thing that was just out there, or up and down, or greed, or this or whatever, don't you think they'd have made hay of that?

19:45 Speaker 3: Oh sure, yeah, the specifics.

19:47 Speaker 3: I think we had talked briefly, however many weeks or days ago, you know, yeah, like nobody brought forth when was any specifics that like well, leadership, he did this.

19:58 Speaker 3: Like nobody even had any specifics, like there was similar to Jesus, right, when they drag Jesus in and they just it says like they're making up stories about them, they're just making up things because there was, they don't have it, they don't even have anything no-transcript.

My Experience and Accountability in Leadership

20:22 Speaker 1: No, not one example.

20:23 Speaker 1: And according to simmons or else I was that consistently it all came back to me.

20:28 Speaker 1: Whatever I said.

20:29 Speaker 1: When don't you think people go?

20:31 Speaker 1: Well, he said this and this and this, and he did it this way and this way and we were forced this way.

20:34 Speaker 1: Where was the specifics?

20:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, that there.

20:37 Speaker 1: There were none.

20:38 Speaker 1: No, because they don't exist now that I mentioned.

20:41 Speaker 1: Of course, they may make up a few, but that's beside the point.

20:43 Speaker 1: Sure, sim?

20:45 Speaker 1: This is what leadership looks like, what style, what manner.

20:50 Speaker 1: It's Acts chapter 20, verse 19.

20:53 Speaker 1: Mr Simmons, this is who I am in terms of leadership, jacob.

20:59 Speaker 1: I'm going to let you read that and then I'm going to expound on that just a little bit more.

21:03 Speaker 3: Acts, chapter 20, verse 19,.

21:05 Speaker 3: I serve the Lord with great humility and with tears, although I was severely tested by the plots of the Jews.

21:14 Speaker 1: That's it in a nutshell, literally.

21:17 Speaker 1: If I had to recount my life and I'm not about to do that, that's it there.

21:22 Speaker 1: I serve the Lord with great humility.

21:26 Speaker 1: If you see boldness in me, if you see me rebuking somebody with authority, if you see me not playing games, it comes from great humility with tears.

21:37 Speaker 1: Do not be a fool to think that I'm not in the prayer closet weeping over a lot of things, including you.

21:44 Speaker 1: I served the Lord with great humility and with tears.

21:49 Speaker 1: Although I was severely tested by the plots of the Jews, do you not think one of the reasons I was fully prepared for what King County courts were going to do?

21:58 Speaker 1: Because I've been tested constantly with plots, really from the day I was baptized and God started moving, which, before you ever got there, mr Simmons, I'd already decades of being tested.

22:09 Speaker 1: This test over here and this plot over here, and I don't like you here.

22:12 Speaker 1: And I heard all this over here and they'd all come in here and they'd all.

22:15 Speaker 1: Oh, I think I got a question here.

22:16 Speaker 1: I could give you story after story after story.

22:20 Speaker 1: If you think this is a joke.

22:22 Speaker 1: It was a severe test, not just one test, lots of plots.

22:27 Speaker 1: Don't you think they're plotting now?

22:28 Speaker 1: I mean literally.

22:29 Speaker 1: Do you not think what can we do to him now?

22:32 Speaker 1: That's just part of serving Jesus Christ.

22:36 Speaker 1: Acts, chapter 20, verse 20,.

22:43 Speaker 1: When we talk about my sermons, jacob, have you ever seen me hesitate?

22:45 Speaker 1: Pause, yeah, I don't want to say this.

22:47 Speaker 1: This will be too tough.

22:48 Speaker 1: Oh, this will be offensive.

22:56 Speaker 1: I could lose my job.

22:57 Speaker 1: No, definitely not.

22:57 Speaker 1: No hesitation Once I know something's to be preached in the Lord, it's a done deal Every single day.

23:00 Speaker 1: Mr Simmons, when I would get up to the pulpit, I would say to myself this may be the last sermon I ever preach.

23:07 Speaker 1: Do you not think these podcasts that are being done?

23:10 Speaker 1: I consider every one could be the last one?

23:13 Speaker 1: Acts, chapter 20, verse 20,.

23:15 Speaker 1: You know that I have not hesitated.

23:18 Speaker 1: Paul says to preach anything that would be helpful.

23:22 Speaker 1: There wasn't anything that was preached that wasn't helpful to them.

23:26 Speaker 1: It didn't build my ministry, it didn't build my reputation, it didn't come back to me, it was for their benefit.

23:33 Speaker 1: You won't do it, but go listen to all the sermons.

23:36 Speaker 1: How do they benefit me, jacob?

23:39 Speaker 1: How do these sermons benefit me?

23:41 Speaker 1: They most certainly do not.

23:42 Speaker 1: To benefit me would be essentially, just to shut up or get on here and go.

23:49 Speaker 1: You know we're in the last days.

23:51 Speaker 1: Have you noticed that, Jacob, and bad times are coming?

23:55 Speaker 1: You know blessed ones.

23:57 Speaker 1: We need to just rely on the Lord, and whenever I'm down I go to this particular happy scripture over here.

24:05 Speaker 1: It says happy, happy, be happy and trust Jesus.

24:07 Speaker 1: Happy and all I'm blessed, happy.

24:09 Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be?

24:09 Speaker 3: what I preach.

24:10 Speaker 3: That would be yeah, if you wanted to be comfortable.

24:14 Speaker 1: Correct, I wouldn't Remember.

24:16 Speaker 1: I write the books.

24:17 Speaker 1: Mr Simmons, you may have forgotten.

24:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, you write the books, I write the books.

24:19 Speaker 1: I wouldn't title my books or even write the things I wrote.

24:22 Speaker 1: You have the doctrines, you have the books.

24:24 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm interrupting you.

24:26 Speaker 1: What were you?

24:26 Speaker 3: saying no, no, no, I'm just doing like a, I'm just I'm just like throwing out the stuff he was talking about.

24:30 Speaker 3: I'm not actually Okay.

24:32 Speaker 3: You know, just like Moses.

24:35 Speaker 3: You know, Moses got nothing.

24:37 Speaker 3: Moses served the Lord, Moses poured himself out, Moses wrote all the books, books, the 10, you know 12 commandments the law, a lot of the law.

24:44 Speaker 1: Actually, just to correct you, Jacob, it was 10 commandments.

24:47 Speaker 3: Oh, 10.

24:47 Speaker 3: Okay, Sorry, oh man, how could you?

24:49 Speaker 3: You're an error, I'm reporting you to the apostasy group Go ahead.

24:53 Speaker 3: But, and then and then, moses climbed the mountain and died.

24:56 Speaker 3: He never got anything.

24:57 Speaker 3: All he did was pour himself out, constantly for the Israelites and the people, and that was it, aka serving the Lord.

25:03 Speaker 3: But yeah, so yeah, but just like Moses.

25:07 Speaker 3: All of the things Moses did did not benefit himself at all.

25:10 Speaker 3: He got nothing.

25:11 Speaker 3: It's the same with you you pour out your life, you give to people, give, give, give, give.

25:16 Speaker 3: And yeah, you didn't get anything.

25:18 Speaker 3: There was no helicopters, there was no limousines, there was no wealth and prosperity doctrine.

25:24 Speaker 1: You didn't get anything, and there was no happy ending to this thing.

25:26 Speaker 1: In fact, moses didn't even get what he was after, which was to go into the promised land.

25:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't get it god brought him under judgment, so he.

25:32 Speaker 1: It's not that he didn't get anything.

25:34 Speaker 1: He got less than what he was after.

25:35 Speaker 3: Oh, sure, yeah, well then, yeah, but but well, I wouldn't even say I guess it's what he was after, but he still, he wanted it because it came from the lord, but but when the Lord said no, then he was he didn't push.

25:47 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was content.

25:48 Speaker 1: Exactly.

25:49 Speaker 1: He loved God more than the promised land, and that's what God is looking for.

25:54 Speaker 1: You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you, but have taught you publicly and house to house Did not fit everything that I did.

26:05 Speaker 3: Yes.

26:08 Speaker 1: Didn't get sent home, didn't get growing up.

26:09 Speaker 1: The reputation among pastors is they preach a sermon on Sunday and they're golfing on Saturday with other pastors and it's a cushy kind of life.

26:19 Speaker 1: Sure, okay, jacob, when's the last time I played golf?

26:23 Speaker 1: Never.

26:24 Speaker 1: When's the last time I had a vacation?

26:26 Speaker 1: Never, exactly Never.

26:28 Speaker 1: It was a constant pouring out publicly and from house to house it was.

26:33 Speaker 1: In other words, it never stopped.

26:35 Speaker 1: When I didn't, phone would ring at night, people called the door.

26:40 Speaker 1: I need prayers Again.

26:44 Speaker 1: I am not whining, complaining.

26:45 Speaker 1: If I, in fact, if god said go play around a golf, I'd say I don't want to go play golf.

26:51 Speaker 1: Is there a reason for this?

26:52 Speaker 1: You know, if he wanted me to play golf because I got to meet somebody out there, because that's where the other pastors are or the lawyers are, or the judges are, and I bought that, then I'd go play golf.

27:01 Speaker 1: But otherwise I have no interest.

27:04 Speaker 1: I have a heart.

27:04 Speaker 1: Nobody's going to believe me anyway.

27:06 Speaker 1: You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful.

27:10 Speaker 1: If you want the truth, come to me.

27:11 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you and I've taught what taught you publicly and from house to house Simmons, you could have showed up at church anytime to see for yourself.

27:20 Speaker 1: In fact, we pleaded with you to do so, but yeah, you don't want to come down and get your hands actually dirty with the truth.

27:26 Speaker 1: Acts 20, verse 21,.

27:28 Speaker 1: I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance.

27:34 Speaker 1: Jacob, have I been?

27:38 Speaker 1: See he's summarizing what he's preaching.

27:39 Speaker 1: Is there anything inconsistent with this statement that I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ?

27:47 Speaker 3: No, that's very consistent and true.

27:51 Speaker 1: All right, let's press on to 2 Corinthians 7, verse 1.

27:55 Speaker 1: 2 Corinthians 7, 1.

27:59 Speaker 1: Again, we're looking at leadership and answering Simmons' questions.

28:03 Speaker 1: That which he doesn't want the answer for.

28:05 Speaker 1: Can't understand what I'm going to tell him.

28:07 Speaker 1: But we're going to tell somebody who might have ears to hear 2 Corinthians 7.1,.

28:13 Speaker 1: Since we have these promises, let's not just pass over that too fast.

28:19 Speaker 1: You see, mr Simmons and Judge Laurie K Smith, everything was predicated on, built upon the grand promises of God.

28:29 Speaker 1: You know forgiveness, love, joy, happiness, paradise, being with God, truthfulness, righteousness, holiness, those are the promises of God.

28:40 Speaker 1: So all preaching, all activity, all pouring myself out had to do with those promises of God.

28:48 Speaker 1: To put it in another terminology, I preached the promises of God.

28:52 Speaker 1: Since we have these promises, that is always the foundation.

28:57 Speaker 1: And when you find these people, these false witnesses, whining and complaining and grumbling, it's because they turned their backs on the promises of God and they know they have turned their backs on the promises of God.

29:11 Speaker 1: And when a man or a woman turns their backs on the promises of God, there is no other recourse, there's no other promise they can go to, there's no other hope that they can go to.

29:23 Speaker 1: They are in a hopeless situation.

29:26 Speaker 1: Any comments, jacob?

29:28 Speaker 1: No, Since we have these promises.

29:31 Speaker 1: And look at these words, dear friends.

29:33 Speaker 1: He didn't have to write that.

29:35 Speaker 1: Dear friends, remember this is about fellowship, mr Simmons.

29:39 Speaker 1: Fellowship in heaven, all right.

29:41 Speaker 1: This is the message.

29:43 Speaker 1: Let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

29:54 Speaker 1: That's what I preached, that's what I lived, that's what I grew in.

29:57 Speaker 1: Don't think that I just got baptized, came to Jesus Christ, did a little Bible study.

Defining Leadership through Personal Reflection

30:02 Speaker 1: I'm not like everybody else, or it just stopped there.

30:05 Speaker 1: There's been a whole purification in my life.

30:08 Speaker 1: Let me give you an example, jacob.

30:10 Speaker 1: Can you think of where I'm going with this?

30:12 Speaker 1: Give me an idea when you purify yourself from something in body and spirit.

30:19 Speaker 3: What do you mean?

30:20 Speaker 3: To give an example of purifying yeah, yeah.

30:24 Speaker 3: Of both body.

30:25 Speaker 3: Well, you mentioned one earlier which is not lying.

30:29 Speaker 3: That would be a good way to purify.

30:32 Speaker 1: Good, I'm thinking of the dreaded Christmas.

30:36 Speaker 3: Oh, the dreaded, oh, yes, yes, the dreaded Christmas, yes, there was no Christmas trees and there was no Christmas lights.

30:43 Speaker 3: Oh well, what was the?

30:45 Speaker 3: Term and we gave to the poor.

30:46 Speaker 3: Yeah, gave to the poor, but like the traditional Christmas, yes, yeah, mr Simmons you see, you whined about Christmas.

30:53 Speaker 1: We didn't do Christmas like the rest of everybody else, or birthdays.

30:57 Speaker 1: Well, okay, I know I didn't want to go too far with this.

31:00 Speaker 3: Okay, yeah.

31:00 Speaker 1: But I was trying to think of one example, maybe just one out of the blue.

31:04 Speaker 1: Well, let's see, man, what would we purify ourselves from?

31:07 Speaker 1: Oh, I know A Christmas tree, a fat Santa, a skinny Santa, all the crudeness of the Santa movies.

31:14 Speaker 1: You know the presents we purify ourselves from, that, mr Simmons and Judge Laurie K Smith.

31:22 Speaker 1: And then it gets worse, and I'm saying that from Simmons' perspective.

31:27 Speaker 1: So you know, it's evil to give to the poor, it's evil not to have a self-centered birthday.

31:33 Speaker 1: You know the fact that we purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit.

31:37 Speaker 1: That would be dress, that would be tattoos.

31:39 Speaker 1: We go down the line.

31:40 Speaker 1: I can get a lot of nice, serious, cold responses with this.

31:44 Speaker 1: What are we supposed to do?

31:45 Speaker 1: Perfecting holiness I don't have time to go into that today, but think about that.

31:51 Speaker 1: We are to be holy in Jesus Christ in everything that we do, right, jacob.

31:55 Speaker 1: But then we're to take that holiness that we're participating in, the holiness of being obedient in everything.

32:03 Speaker 1: And, by the way, holiness means separate from, so I'm separate from all the wickedness and the vile and the lying and the game playing.

32:12 Speaker 1: Again, am I well known for playing word games as far as trying to cover stuff up or, to you know, trap people.

32:21 Speaker 1: No, no, enemies will say that because they're trapped by the truth.

32:26 Speaker 1: But I'm not trapping them Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked.

32:29 Speaker 1: Perfecting holiness, let me ask you, simmons, we're to be holy in all that we do.

32:34 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just the nature of following Jesus, right, wouldn't that be true?

32:38 Speaker 1: Judge Laurie K Smith, that we're supposed to be holy, explain to me why don't you come on the podcast and explain to all of us what perfecting holiness means, not just being holy.

32:50 Speaker 1: You can explain that to us.

32:52 Speaker 1: Then go on to explain to us.

32:54 Speaker 1: Well, how do you perfect holiness, jake?

32:57 Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask you to explain it, because I want to hear what they have to say.

33:02 Speaker 1: And you do this out of what?

33:04 Speaker 1: What does it say Jacob Perfecting holiness?

33:06 Speaker 1: Out of what Rever does it say Jacob Perfecting holiness?

33:07 Speaker 1: Out of what?

33:07 Speaker 1: Reverence for God?

33:08 Speaker 1: Reverence for God?

33:10 Speaker 1: Did anybody try to be holy?

33:12 Speaker 1: Out of reverence for me, jacob?

33:15 Speaker 1: No, no, never.

33:17 Speaker 1: So when everything came back to me, that's just absurd.

33:20 Speaker 1: I mean it is absurd as again, as we talked about earlier, that is black from white.

33:26 Speaker 1: Out of reverence for God.

33:28 Speaker 1: A lot of men will try and live a good life or a moral life, but it's not out of reverence for God.

33:34 Speaker 1: Reverence means there's a holy fear.

33:36 Speaker 1: So, simmons, when you go so were you concerned with your salvation at Sound Doctrine Church?

33:42 Speaker 1: Duh, of course we were concerned.

33:45 Speaker 1: It's out of reverence for a holy God for which we must all give an account, for every lie that we say, for every false accusation that we say, for every little twisting.

33:56 Speaker 1: Let me give one example on perfecting holiness.

33:59 Speaker 1: I strive to always be truthful about every situation, jacob right, but I'm hindered by my lack of knowledge of words and definitions or clarity of my own mind.

34:11 Speaker 1: So you take a holy truth, let's say.

34:14 Speaker 1: But then you realize, man, I could have said this better over here it doesn't mean you were lying, it means you keep refining.

34:20 Speaker 1: Well, what is the truth?

34:21 Speaker 1: What exactly is there?

34:22 Speaker 1: That's why, when we discuss and you go well, it wasn't exactly that way we go back and forth because we're trying to perfect the truth, we're trying to get down to what is holy in that situation what was the real meaning, what was going on, what were the events?

34:38 Speaker 1: It's taking that which is already holy, that which is already truthful, and refining it so it's even more truthful and communicated in such a way, both in heart and mind and in speech, out of reverence for god.

34:53 Speaker 1: I you know, I never had anybody come to me and go.

34:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, I really want to be holy because out of reverence for you, I mean, that didn't.

35:02 Speaker 1: I'm pounding on that.

35:04 Speaker 1: But right, correct, that never happened.

35:06 Speaker 1: All right, go to 2 Corinthians 7, verse 2, and you can accept this as a solid truth, mr Simmons.

35:15 Speaker 1: A solid truth.

35:16 Speaker 1: Yes, judge Laurie K Smith, this is the truth, and had you presented the truth to the jury, this would have been their conclusion.

35:26 Speaker 3: Go ahead.

35:26 Speaker 3: 2 Corinthians 7.2.

35:28 Speaker 3: Make room for us in your hearts.

35:31 Speaker 3: We have wronged no one.

35:33 Speaker 3: We have corrupted no one.

35:35 Speaker 3: We have exploited no one.

35:39 Speaker 1: Jacob, and you're before God with these answers.

35:42 Speaker 1: This isn't like we'll just answer because you think you know that.

35:47 Speaker 1: Yes, Because you hate me, right?

35:49 Speaker 1: What do you mean?

35:51 Speaker 1: I hate you.

35:52 Speaker 1: Jesus says you got to hate your brothers.

35:54 Speaker 3: Oh well, yes, correct.

35:55 Speaker 3: I know that the Lord sees all, knows all and hears everything we say.

35:59 Speaker 3: So when I say this, the Lord would judge me for anything I say.

36:05 Speaker 3: That was true, or untrue.

36:06 Speaker 1: That is correct, and you hate me enough in Jesus Christ that you're not going to seek to please me in a man kind of way and you'll declare the truth.

36:15 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I would not sit here.

36:17 Speaker 3: And what is it?

36:17 Speaker 3: I don't know, I can't even think of the word.

36:19 Speaker 1: Puff you up Show favoritism.

36:20 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, puff you up.

36:30 Speaker 1: Oh great, you know, puff you up.

36:31 Speaker 1: Oh great is you, you know.

36:31 Speaker 1: Scripture says a man is tested by the praise given him.

36:33 Speaker 1: I've never, um, oh yeah, tested in that yet.

36:34 Speaker 1: In fact I just kind of left.

36:34 Speaker 1: It's like all right.

36:34 Speaker 1: Have I ever, and all the time that you've know me, exploited anybody?

36:38 Speaker 1: Absolutely never.

36:40 Speaker 1: Have I wronged anybody?

36:42 Speaker 1: No, no.

36:43 Speaker 1: And have I ever, ever, corrupted anyone?

36:48 Speaker 1: No, well, let's move on then.

36:52 Speaker 1: 2 Corinthians 1.12.

36:54 Speaker 1: And as you go there, keep in mind had I wronged somebody?

36:57 Speaker 1: How about the chance to repent and to make it right?

37:00 Speaker 1: Oh, that little tidbit.

37:02 Speaker 1: Anyway.

37:03 Speaker 1: 2 Corinthians 1.12.

37:05 Speaker 1: Now, here's one of these words.

37:06 Speaker 1: Mr Simmons is going to trap you up, I mean being the style of leadership and the style of prosecutors that King County is, and the darkness.

37:18 Speaker 1: This is rich fodder here.

37:20 Speaker 1: And had you read the books, or actually listened to them, you could have gone there, you could have gone here, you could have gone here.

37:27 Speaker 1: 2 Corinthians 1.12.

37:29 Speaker 1: Now, this is our boast.

37:30 Speaker 1: Read that again for him, jacob, so he can grab onto that word and run with it.

37:34 Speaker 1: What did I?

37:36 Speaker 3: just read Now this is our boast.

37:38 Speaker 3: This will tickle his ears.

37:40 Speaker 1: A boast, a boast.

37:42 Speaker 1: He's evil.

37:43 Speaker 1: He's wicked.

37:43 Speaker 1: It all comes back to him.

37:45 Speaker 1: He's the one in charge, he's the big banana, right?

37:49 Speaker 1: He's proudful, boastful.

37:51 Speaker 1: He's bragging.

37:52 Speaker 1: He's a hypocrite.

37:53 Speaker 1: He just told everybody else not to brag, not to boast, but what's he getting ready to do?

37:58 Speaker 1: Boast now.

38:01 Speaker 1: This is our boast.

38:04 Speaker 1: What Simmons cannot understand, will not understand, does not want to understand, is that you can boast through the humility of Jesus Christ.

38:14 Speaker 1: Remember this is a man serving.

38:16 Speaker 1: With what Tears being poured out, great humility and brokenness.

38:22 Speaker 1: It is a boast in humility.

38:24 Speaker 1: Wow, if he could even get the concept.

38:28 Speaker 1: I imagine the you know the light bulbs are flashing like what, what, what, what, yeah, as if he wanted to know.

38:33 Speaker 1: But it is possible.

38:35 Speaker 1: You don't believe it, you don't see it.

38:37 Speaker 1: Judge Laurie Kate Smith would go whoa, we got him good.

38:40 Speaker 1: She'd, she'd get to do her little quiet, sweet voice, smile.

38:43 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to allow that questioning.

38:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go for that.

38:51 Speaker 1: Your Honor, the defense says what's that got to do with the person that's being charged?

38:53 Speaker 1: It's supposedly they did this crime and they went up these stairs and did all these things.

38:55 Speaker 1: What difference does it make whether Tim Williams boasts or not?

38:58 Speaker 1: I'm going to allow it.

39:00 Speaker 1: You can keep it short, mr Simmons, but I'm going to allow it because we're looking at the behavior that has to do with what?

39:12 Speaker 1: With what?

39:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't even make sense of it.

39:16 Speaker 1: I did.

39:16 Speaker 1: Now.

39:18 Speaker 1: This is our boast.

39:19 Speaker 1: Bingo, you got me.

39:21 Speaker 1: I'm trapped.

39:22 Speaker 1: I know where to go, except to the gospel and to the truth.

39:26 Speaker 1: All right, it gets worse than that.

39:27 Speaker 1: Mr Simmons, hang on, take some notes here, because the next time you put another church on trial, you've got some good, good info.

39:34 Speaker 1: Look at what he says.

39:35 Speaker 1: Our conscience testifies that we conducted ourselves in the world.

39:40 Speaker 1: He's boasting about how righteous he is.

39:43 Speaker 1: He's boasting about how holy he is.

39:46 Speaker 1: He's boasting about how holy he is.

39:47 Speaker 1: He's boasting about his humility.

39:49 Speaker 1: And he's saying my conscience is clear, my conscience is holy.

39:54 Speaker 1: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relationships with you, in the holiness and sincerity that are from God.

The Role of Humility in Shepherding

40:05 Speaker 1: You got him Ten years to life, right, jacob?

40:07 Speaker 1: In fact, worse than that all his friends that are on trial.

40:11 Speaker 1: They now have to serve time because he boasted.

40:16 Speaker 3: What do you mean In other?

40:18 Speaker 1: words, we had Malcolm Frazier on trial.

40:19 Speaker 1: Oh sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

40:20 Speaker 1: But it's all my questions and my books and what I wrote and how leadership worked and how the church is arranged and what went on and what we did over here and Christmas and birthdays and all that, and that's why Malcolm Frazier is going to jail.

40:32 Speaker 1: Malcolm Frazier is in prison because we gave to the poor on Christmas.

40:36 Speaker 1: Yep, and that's not an exaggeration, that's the facts, correct.

40:41 Speaker 1: So here we go, paul's boasting that his conscience is better than well.

40:45 Speaker 1: Let me tell you something, mr Simmons in the humility of Jesus Christ and the humility that comes from his brokenness, the humility that comes from tears and crying out to God in the power of his grace that crucifies pride, a man can be given humility that comes from the throne room of God.

41:05 Speaker 1: In fact, just so you know, we don't have time to look at it today To keep Paul from being prideful, he was given a demon.

41:12 Speaker 1: That's how powerful.

41:13 Speaker 1: Look.

41:14 Speaker 1: You know what.

41:14 Speaker 1: Mr Simmons and Judge Jorge Smith, do me a favor, go into the prayer closet and you think this is a bunch of mumbo jumbo.

41:19 Speaker 1: Ask God to humble you for the next three years.

41:21 Speaker 1: Really, if this is nothing, if this is not believable.

41:25 Speaker 1: You get into the prayer closet, bend your knees and say Lord, you know, we think Tim Williams is just full of it.

41:31 Speaker 1: Why don't you show us whether we can be humbled by you or not?

41:35 Speaker 1: I'm positive.

41:38 Speaker 1: I want to give you a chance to go.

41:39 Speaker 1: Do that.

41:40 Speaker 1: Turn it off right now, stop listening, go into your anywhere, wherever you're at, doesn't matter.

41:44 Speaker 1: God honor.

41:45 Speaker 1: The prayer may not lead to holiness, but you'll know, one day you will be humble, but it may be too late if you don't repent.

41:52 Speaker 1: All right, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, in the holiness and sincerity that are from God.

42:02 Speaker 1: We have done so not according to worldly wisdom, but according to God's grace.

42:08 Speaker 1: There is power in everything.

42:09 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, and this is extremely true, and you, mr Simmons, have made a colossal mistake by putting Malcolm Frazier in prison, and you will pay dearly for it.

42:21 Speaker 1: By putting Malcolm Frazier in prison and you will pay dearly for it.

42:22 Speaker 1: 2 Corinthians 1.13,.

42:23 Speaker 1: He goes on to say For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand.

42:28 Speaker 1: Jacob, am I abundantly clear?

42:34 Speaker 1: Yes, do I do?

42:35 Speaker 1: The Greek says this over here.

42:37 Speaker 1: No, the Hebrew says this.

42:38 Speaker 1: And if we jump through these three vowels over here, and if we look through these three vowels over here, and if we look at these little outlines and I saw an article today that the Oscars were all messianic type symbols and the church was all excited oh yeah, we see three.

42:52 Speaker 1: What is your point?

42:54 Speaker 3: Of course, the world is all excited.

42:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course.

42:55 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh.

42:56 Speaker 3: The Oscars yeah, they're evil.

42:58 Speaker 3: Yeah, duh.

42:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, why even waste your time?

43:01 Speaker 1: Yeah why are we what?

43:03 Speaker 1: Why does that require discernment or excitement, yeah yeah, of course I knew it all along

43:09 Speaker 1: like okay, I know let's go to james, chapter 3, verse 1.

43:16 Speaker 1: You see, mr simmons, we are not, or at least I'm not, or I were, I don't know what.

43:23 Speaker 1: I don't know where am I at now, jacob, it's like you took care of the church, not a problem.

43:27 Speaker 1: You scattered that.

43:27 Speaker 1: That's your millstone, and quite a few millstones, actually better than a millstone, were put around you, tied around you and you're thrown into the sea than did what you and judge laurie k smith and your five other four other cronies did, and all the other subgroups and all the good, good deed people and everybody else that supported all the lying and all the stuff that went on.

43:45 Speaker 1: You see, mr simmons, we're not like prosecutors, we're not a privileged criminal class.

43:53 Speaker 1: Our things are not buried, they're not covered.

43:55 Speaker 1: We serve a living god who, before his throne right now, our folly and our sins are hidden, things that men cannot see are present with him.

44:08 Speaker 1: He can see them all.

44:09 Speaker 1: Night is not night to the God that I serve, it is if light.

44:13 Speaker 1: And James, chapter 3, verse 1, provides a very sober promise.

44:19 Speaker 1: So when you want to know what kind of leadership it was a fearful leadership, a leadership that is afraid, a leadership that knows it will be judged, but not just judged like the average Christian, whatever that means, jacob.

44:39 Speaker 1: Go ahead and read James, chapter 3, verse 1.

44:41 Speaker 3: Christian, whatever that means, jacob, go ahead and read James, chapter three, verse one.

44:43 Speaker 3: Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

44:57 Speaker 1: It's too late for me but I can't stand before the Lord and go oh, I wasn't a teacher, what are you talking about?

44:59 Speaker 1: Not me, I, you know, I can't get out of that one.

45:01 Speaker 1: I don't know.

45:02 Speaker 1: You probably could squeeze out of that.

45:03 Speaker 1: What do you think, jacob?

45:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.

45:07 Speaker 1: Not many of you should presume to be cheat teachers really.

45:10 Speaker 1: So, yeah, I I'm laughing like I'm gonna put on my door head pastor.

45:15 Speaker 1: You know, main teacher, uh, the big banana kind of routine.

45:20 Speaker 1: Don't presume that.

45:22 Speaker 1: Because why?

45:24 Speaker 1: I'm facing strict judgment, more strict than anybody else?

45:27 Speaker 1: That's not a boast, that's not like and I've heard pastors do that Well, I'll be judged more strictly, I'm going.

45:32 Speaker 1: You fool, you're boasting about being judged more strictly.

45:35 Speaker 1: Well, okay, you will be, but that's not the most intelligent thing to go around saying that's going to happen to you.

45:40 Speaker 1: It's like you get quiet, mr Simmons, when I read this particular passage.

45:46 Speaker 1: This isn't like.

45:48 Speaker 1: I don't know, jake, I didn't go around announcing well, yeah, I'm a teacher, so I'm going to be judged more strictly, right, correct?

45:56 Speaker 1: No, it's a fearful thing to contemplate.

45:59 Speaker 1: It quiets the soul, it causes me to slow down, to contemplate, to, as Scripture says, judge myself so that I don't come under judgment, and this is a constant thing.

46:14 Speaker 1: How can I explain that when you're serving other people, it's in a constant state of fear and trembling.

46:23 Speaker 1: Granted, there's the peace of Jesus Christ, there's the grace of God, all that's there, but there's also the trembling.

46:31 Speaker 1: What are the right words to say?

46:33 Speaker 1: What should I do or not do?

46:34 Speaker 1: What will benefit them or not benefit them?

46:36 Speaker 1: What's really going on behind the scenes?

46:39 Speaker 1: What are they really saying?

46:41 Speaker 1: What are their real needs over here?

46:42 Speaker 1: How do I draw them closer to you, lord?

46:44 Speaker 1: Answer those questions for me.

46:47 Speaker 1: Mr Simmons, if you were in leadership, how would you approach Judge Lori K Smith and go?

46:51 Speaker 1: How do I present her more perfect in Jesus Christ?

46:54 Speaker 1: What is it that she's really saying?

46:56 Speaker 1: What's in the dark that needs to come into the light?

46:58 Speaker 1: What is it she needs to be blessed in?

47:00 Speaker 1: What does she need to say?

47:01 Speaker 1: What's in the dark that needs to come into the light?

47:02 Speaker 1: What is it she needs to be blessed in?

47:03 Speaker 1: What does she need to say you're doing good over here.

47:04 Speaker 1: You tell me how you come to all those judgments, all of those discernments.

47:09 Speaker 1: This is an extremely difficult.

47:11 Speaker 1: Not difficult.

47:14 Speaker 1: Difficult implies you can do it.

47:15 Speaker 1: That's why I don't like the word.

47:19 Speaker 1: It's difficult to do 100 push-ups, or my age, probably a little bit less right.

47:23 Speaker 1: It's difficult, it is impossible.

47:27 Speaker 1: One has the grace of God to be in leadership or he doesn't.

47:31 Speaker 1: And if I sin in such a way, if I do something that's wrong, if there's starting to take advantage, he will withdraw that grace.

47:41 Speaker 1: You don't understand this, that, as the psalm says, when he hides his face from you, the earth trembles.

47:46 Speaker 1: The biggest fear I have in this world is that he hides his face because I've done wrong.

47:55 Speaker 1: And then, when he hides his face, I search my heart and I cry out to him and say search my heart, oh God, see if there be any offensive way in me.

48:04 Speaker 1: And that's not a song, that's not some happy-go-lucky kind of prayer.

48:08 Speaker 1: That is dead serious.

48:11 Speaker 1: Search me, oh God, I want to be holy.

48:14 Speaker 1: Any comments on that, jacob?

48:18 Speaker 3: I think the other thing is like Simmons, of course, has no clue.

48:21 Speaker 3: The average church has like leadership teams and there's like a bunch of people right and so from the outside looking in, when they only see there's kind of like one pastor.

48:32 Speaker 3: Of course it was a small church anyways, but this is the reason why, If anything, everybody in Sound Doctrine knew that, the seriousness of being in leadership.

48:42 Speaker 3: Everybody knew it because everybody has read the scripture and could see it in you, and so there was no like, oh, I want to be a pastor or a deacon or an elder or whatever.

48:54 Speaker 3: It's like, oh really, oh really, you really want to do this.

48:58 Speaker 3: There was a way, more seriousness to it than we're just going to shove somebody in a position you bring up a good point, not to mention the fact I was desperate for elders or deacons correct.

49:09 Speaker 3: It's not like you didn't.

49:10 Speaker 3: It's not like you.

49:11 Speaker 3: You ever didn't want people to, but it was.

49:15 Speaker 3: It was that serious, because it is there was nobody that was qualified.

49:19 Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I can't just make this.

49:21 Speaker 1: Who was the again?

49:22 Speaker 1: Bo, what's his name?

49:24 Speaker 1: Slandered me, went to city council Venom Claw.

49:29 Speaker 3: Chavez, yeah, bo Chavez, yeah.

49:32 Speaker 3: I don't know the incident you're thinking of, but Well, oh, he wrote.

49:36 Speaker 1: Whatever he came to, the salt shaker said that I can had all their everybody's paychecks and, uh, or, I mean I kept everybody's checking account and did all those things.

49:43 Speaker 1: It was a huge amount of slander.

49:44 Speaker 1: But the point is his church appointed him as an elder.

49:46 Speaker 1: His kids weren't even grown.

49:48 Speaker 1: I mean just a casual reading of the scripture.

49:54 Speaker 1: So in churches they're, they're desperate for people to be involved.

49:56 Speaker 1: So everybody gets put in positions of leadership and the word is just meaningless.

49:59 Speaker 1: Correct, I mean correct, I mean if you, if you preach, what leadership is about?

Challenging Misconceptions of Church Leadership

50:05 Speaker 1: It's like no, that's well.

50:06 Speaker 1: Let me put it to you this way if I preach, let's say a series of sermons on what leadership is in jesus christ, and I say, okay, who is eager, who wants in this position?

50:15 Speaker 1: And I see a couple hands go up.

50:17 Speaker 1: I can tell you right now those are not the people that correct.

50:20 Speaker 3: It's not them.

50:20 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the people that don't want to leadership Correct?

50:21 Speaker 1: it's not them.

50:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the people that don't want to.

50:23 Speaker 1: I'm not telling you God wouldn't say, because they put their hand up.

50:26 Speaker 1: Even the apostles debated who was the greatest and thought they would be next to Jesus.

50:34 Speaker 1: I understand the civil nature, but I'm just kind of on a basic level, when it's all laid out, when it's just very clear this is what leadership is.

50:38 Speaker 1: This is a responsibility.

50:38 Speaker 1: You won't have a life.

50:39 Speaker 1: Your wife is going to whine because your life is constantly interrupted.

50:44 Speaker 1: My wife used to say all the time leave the man alone, let him eat his dinner, because when do most people call?

50:53 Speaker 1: They call when they get home and it's dinner time and everybody's in desperate need at that point, or want a question answered, or after the Sunday sermon.

50:59 Speaker 1: I didn't understand this.

51:00 Speaker 1: And what'd you mean by that and why didn't you say this over here?

51:03 Speaker 1: By the way, this isn't just people wanting wisdom or information and all that, these people criticizing, looking for every single thing that I do or don't do, or say so.

51:15 Speaker 1: There was a constant level of not only coming at me and wanting from me.

51:21 Speaker 1: So have fun, mr Simmons.

51:24 Speaker 1: If you think you want this territory Anything, jacob, no, take us out of here.

51:32 Speaker 2: Nothing on the Consider podcast should be considered legal or life advice.

51:36 Speaker 2: Each is admonished to seek a holy God and obey by picking up a cross to follow Jesus.

51:42 Speaker 2: The Consider Podcast wwwconsiderinfo.