Apparently Your Church Forgot The Flyers

Disclaimer And Case Framing

0:00 SPEAKER_00: Any reference to persecution or persecution by prosecution reflects the opinions and possible first hand accounts of those individuals who were witnesses to and lived through the terrible events described, including what they experienced from systemic corruptions.

The Church That “Just Came In”

0:14 SPEAKER_00: Enumclaw, Detective Grant McCall, and the city of Enclaw, corruption of rights, laws, and procedures in King County Court.

0:21 SPEAKER_02: When a new church comes into a community, the first thing they do is send out flyers to everybody and say, We're in the church.

0:29 SPEAKER_02: And we'd like people to come.

0:31 SPEAKER_02: We have this going on, this going on, this going on, a whole bunch of things.

0:34 SPEAKER_02: Their group at the time they came into Eamclaw, we didn't even know they were there.

0:39 SPEAKER_02: They just came in.

0:41 SPEAKER_02: Their group at the time they came into Enum Claw, we didn't even know they were there.

0:46 SPEAKER_02: They just came in.

0:48 SPEAKER_01: We didn't even know they were.

0:54 SPEAKER_00: Detective Grant McCall delivered testimony that has raised serious questions about bias, professionalism, and the integrity of law enforcement and judicial oversight in Enum Claw.

1:04 SPEAKER_00: When describing the arrival of a new church in the community, the detective stated, When a new church comes into a community, the first thing they do is send out flyers to everybody and say, We're a new church, and we'd like people to come.

1:16 SPEAKER_00: We have this going on, this going on, this going on.

1:19 SPEAKER_00: A whole bunch of things.

1:21 SPEAKER_00: Their group, at the time they came into Enum Claw, we didn't even know they were there, they just came in.

1:26 SPEAKER_00: He repeated variations of, we didn't even know they were there.

1:30 SPEAKER_00: They just came in multiple times.

1:33 SPEAKER_00: In another portion of his testimony, Detective McCall offered this religious assessment.

1:37 SPEAKER_00: So their fruit's not right.

1:39 SPEAKER_00: Their fruit's wrong, according to the Bible.

1:41 SPEAKER_00: And I agree with the Bible with what it says and the version that I believe in.

1:46 SPEAKER_00: This biblical judgment was also repeated at length.

KJV-Only Beliefs And Bias

1:53 SPEAKER_00: KJV onlyism is a fundamentalist Christian position, prominent in certain independent Baptist and conservative evangelical circles, asserting that the 1611 King James Version is the sole preserved, inspired, and inerrant English translation of the Bible.

2:11 SPEAKER_00: Adherents often reject modern translations, e.g., NIV, ESV, NASB, as corrupted by liberal scholarship, missing verses, or satanic influence, viewing the KJV as the one true word of God for English speakers.

2:30 SPEAKER_00: This belief extends beyond preference for archaic language to a doctrinal stance of one Bible.

2:36 SPEAKER_00: God supernaturally preserved his word perfectly in the KJV, making other versions inferior or dangerous.

2:44 SPEAKER_00: It frequently pairs with once saved, always saved, eternal security, theology.

2:49 SPEAKER_00: McCall's emails labeling sound doctrine's fruit as evil and twisted and lacking the gospel align with this rigid framework, viewing the church's teachings as a threat to his version of biblical orthodoxy.

3:03 SPEAKER_00: Public information on the specific church McCall attends is limited, but descriptions consistently tie him to local Baptist or independent fundamentalist influences in the Enam Claw area, consistent with KJV only circles.

3:16 SPEAKER_00: This theological lens provides critical context for his actions.

3:20 SPEAKER_00: What he perceived as a secretive, non-announcing group that just came in was not merely procedurally odd but doctrinally suspect in his eyes.

Why The Flyer Expectation Matters

3:30 SPEAKER_00: From multiple angles, McCall's statement is indefensible.

3:34 SPEAKER_00: Legally and constitutionally, there is zero requirement under U.S.

3:39 SPEAKER_00: or Washington law for any church, synagogue, mosque, or religious study group to send out flyers or notify authorities upon entering a community.

3:49 SPEAKER_00: Religious assembly and practice are not privileges granted by local police, they are fundamental rights.

3:55 SPEAKER_00: By treating the church's quiet arrival as noteworthy or problematic, and building a pattern of surveillance and harassment around it, McCall revealed a presumption of state oversight over faith communities.

4:07 SPEAKER_00: This is not proactive policing, it is prejudice dressed as procedure, compounded by McCall's theological disagreements, rooted in his KJV-only beliefs, and his self-described role as a magnet for liars who invited and scripted false accusations without accountability.

4:25 SPEAKER_00: In the same courtroom proceedings, McCall's testimony unraveled further under scrutiny.

4:31 SPEAKER_00: He first claimed, well, the entire case revolves around a couple of things.

4:34 SPEAKER_00: One of them is the church as a whole.

4:37 SPEAKER_00: We've received complaints from people about the church.

4:39 SPEAKER_00: Later, he contradicted himself, stating the Sound Doctrine Church really doesn't have anything to do with the investigation at all, or the allegations.

4:48 SPEAKER_00: This flip-flop exposed as classic lying behavior, fumbling memory, I don't remember, responses, looking at the judge rather than the jury, undermined his credibility and highlighted the case's true focus on targeting the church.

Contradictions And Suggestive Interviewing

5:02 SPEAKER_00: Forensic psychologist Dr.

5:04 SPEAKER_00: John Ewell, an expert witness for the defense, delivered devastating testimony about McCall's interview techniques with the accuser.

5:12 SPEAKER_00: Ewell described the process as highly suggestive, and essentially this is how you set people up.

5:17 SPEAKER_00: Noting that McCall introduced every single alleged act first through leading questions.

5:22 SPEAKER_00: This created an extremely high risk of false memory implantation.

5:27 SPEAKER_00: A textbook example of suggestive interviewing that forensic experts warn can manufacture false allegations.

5:34 SPEAKER_00: Ewell called the interview absolutely terrible, reinforcing claims of a premeditated setup rather than an objective investigation.

Judge Blocks Constitution From Jury

5:43 SPEAKER_00: Troubling judicial restriction.

5:47 SPEAKER_00: A particularly troubling aspect of the proceedings was Judge Laurie K.

5:51 SPEAKER_00: Smith's decision not to allow the Washington State Constitution to be read to the jury.

5:57 SPEAKER_00: This restriction limited the defense's ability to fully educate jurors on the state's strong religious freedom protections under Article 1, Section 11, and related provisions safeguarding privacy, due process, and equal protection.

6:10 SPEAKER_00: By preventing the jury from directly hearing the state constitutional text, the ruling arguably weakened the defense's arguments regarding religious targeting and official misconduct, raising serious questions about impartiality and the jury's ability to weigh the full legal context of the case.

6:26 SPEAKER_00: Nuances matter here.

6:27 SPEAKER_00: Police do have legitimate duties to investigate credible reports of crime, including child abuse, regardless of the perpetrator's religious affiliation.

6:37 SPEAKER_00: Yet the quote, combined with the documented pre-2012 pattern of harassment, including the apartment raid upon first arrival, repeated high pullovers, and intrusive questions such as where is your church located, suggestive interviewing, evidence tampering, courtroom contradictions, and explicit doctrinal animus, suggests the investigation was tainted at its root by religious nonconformity and an anti-Christian mindset.

7:01 SPEAKER_00: The church labels the underlying allegations an impossible to commit crime, with zero corroborating evidence, used solely to dismantle sound doctrine and erase its positive local presence, bookstore publishing ads and service.

7:14 SPEAKER_00: This selective enforcement chills religious liberty, particularly for smaller, non-mainstream groups that prioritize internal community over public proselytizing.

Emails Evidence Issues Brady Flags

7:24 SPEAKER_00: Beyond the Church Archive, independent court documents, news coverage, and public records paint an even more troubling portrait of McCall.

7:31 SPEAKER_00: In the Fraser case, appeal briefs filed with the Washington Court of Appeals, number 70,700i, defense attorneys highlighted a pretrial ruling by Judge Beth M.

7:42 SPEAKER_00: Andress that McCall had committed misconduct in his handling of the investigation, including issues with evidence preservation and his documented religious bias against Sound Doctrine Church.

7:53 SPEAKER_00: The judge explicitly noted that McCall's bias may have affected his judgment.

7:58 SPEAKER_00: Defense counsel sought to introduce this finding to the jury to demonstrate prejudice and undermine the detective's credibility, but the court restricted its use, limiting the defense's ability to fully expose the taint.

8:10 SPEAKER_00: McCall's bias was further evidenced by emails he sent to Fraser's mother in Scotland, in which he described the church as completely without the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and stated that the fruit exhibited by Malcolm's group is evil and twisted, raising serious questions about transparency and impartiality.

8:30 SPEAKER_00: Mainstream coverage in the Courier Herald and Patch reported these emails as a central point of contention during trial, with the defense arguing they proved McCall's personal animus influenced the entire case.

8:42 SPEAKER_00: His collaboration with Athena Dean in scripting or advancing accusations further illustrates the coordinated nature of the effort against the church.

8:50 SPEAKER_00: Public records also place McCall on a Brady slash Giglio list maintained for Enam Claw police department officers.

8:58 SPEAKER_00: Such lists flag law enforcement personnel with potential credibility issues, ranging from official misconduct findings, internal complaints, or other impeachment material that prosecutors must disclose to defense attorneys.

9:12 SPEAKER_00: While specific, undisclosed Brady material is not detailed on the public tracker, McCall's inclusion signals ongoing concerns about his reliability as a witness in criminal cases.

9:22 SPEAKER_00: Department history adds further layers of controversy.

9:25 SPEAKER_00: In 2012, McCall was peripherally involved in a high-profile Civil Service Commission hearing concerning the termination of Enum Claw police lieutenant Eric Sortland.

9:35 SPEAKER_00: Testimony during the 11-hour proceeding referenced internal dynamics, including McCall's reassignment of background investigations and confrontations within the department, amid allegations of favoritism, discrimination, and unprofessional conduct among officers.

9:50 SPEAKER_00: Critics and internal records described McCall's behavior in certain squad room incidents, including an alleged shotgun clearing episode, as, quote, concerning, yet ultimately insufficient for termination, allowing him to continue and later be promoted to detective sergeant.

10:08 SPEAKER_00: Despite the Fraser misconduct findings, bias revelations, and these internal red flags, McCall advanced in rank and has served in leadership roles, including as operations commander.

10:17 SPEAKER_00: A notable later controversy involved McCall's son, who joined the Enam Claw Police Department.

10:22 SPEAKER_00: He was forced to resign after mishandling evidence, an incident that further highlights concerns about integrity, oversight, and patterns of misconduct within the department linked to the McCall family.

10:32 SPEAKER_00: Broader scrutiny of the Enam Claw Police Department during McCall's tenure, including a 2016 lawsuit alleging officers ignored a credible 2014 child rape tip for months, raises questions about systemic accountability, though McCall was not named directly in that filing.

Department Culture And City Attorney Role

10:47 SPEAKER_00: Compounding the institutional failures is the long shadow cast by Enam Claw City Attorney Mike Reynolds, also serving as city administrator, a fixture in local government for nearly 46 years until around 2022.

11:02 SPEAKER_00: As the city's chief legal advisor, Reynolds provided counsel to the Enam Claw Police Department throughout the Frazier investigation and related matters, including oversight of evidence handling, internal policies, and potential liability.

11:15 SPEAKER_00: Church archival materials and related analyses accused the city attorney's office of enabling and whitewashing McCall's misconduct, allegedly participating in or ignoring the shredding/slash destruction of thousands of emails and recordings central to exposing the hate crime setup against Sound Doctrine Church, these sources portray Reynolds' office as part of a broader pattern of protecting corrupt actors within the Enum Clause system, refusing to correct documented investigative abuses despite judicial findings of misconduct.

11:50 SPEAKER_00: Independent reporting adds further controversy.

11:53 SPEAKER_00: In the high-profile 2022 drainage district corruption trial of Allen and Joanne Thomas, convicted of tax fraud and related charges in 2023, defense attorneys presented a counter narrative of dueling conspiracies.

12:06 SPEAKER_00: They alleged that Reynolds, motivated by a desire to develop more land in Enum Claw and expand the city's tax base, targeted the Thomas family's expansive farm property for forced acquisition or urbanization.

12:18 SPEAKER_00: According to the defense, Reynolds used public document requests and media as tools in a coordinated city effort to pressure the Thomases into relinquishing their land, framing the investigation, which Reynolds initiated in 2017 as city administrator, by flagging delayed responses to records requests as pretextual.

12:38 SPEAKER_00: As pretextual, Reynolds testified for the prosecution, but the defense's claims painted him as a central figure in alleged local power plays and potential conflicts of interest.

12:48 SPEAKER_00: While the Thomases were ultimately convicted, the trial highlighted deep divisions over Reynolds, role in local governance, and raised questions about whether personal or developmental agendas influenced official actions.

13:00 SPEAKER_00: Reynolds also served as attorney for King County Fire District 28, overlapping with police and city officials, including figures connected to the McCall family and local records.

13:10 SPEAKER_00: Critics in local letters to the editor in council disputes accused him of favoritism in contract matters and overreach in advising elected bodies.

13:18 SPEAKER_00: His decades-long tenure is viewed by some as creating an entrenched, unaccountable legal gatekeeper who prioritized city protection over constitutional safeguards, particularly in small-town dynamics where personal relationships can blur lines between advice and cover up from multiple angles, this raises nuanced but serious implications.

13:39 SPEAKER_00: Did Reynolds' legal guidance prevent meaningful internal review of McCall's religiously biased tactics?

13:46 SPEAKER_00: Was there a culture of impunity shielded by the city attorney's office?

13:51 SPEAKER_00: Edge cases in local corruption probes like the drainage district only underscore how such long-serving officials can become lightning rods for accusations of systemic bias, whether in land use disputes or high-stakes criminal investigations involving minority faiths.

First Amendment And Section 1983

14:07 SPEAKER_00: The archive.consider.info site meticulously documents a years-long campaign of abuse predating the Frasier charges, including suggestive follow-the-finger scripting, deleted recordings, slash emails, and coordination with a third party.

14:22 SPEAKER_00: Court records corroborate core elements of these claims, including the judicial misconduct finding, an expert condemnation of interview techniques.

14:30 SPEAKER_00: Reynolds advisory role, per church accounts, extended this pattern by failing to intervene or disclose potential conflicts.

14:37 SPEAKER_00: McCall's testimony, the pre-existing harassment pattern, suggestive techniques, evidence tampering, judicially noted misconduct, Bradyless status, courtroom contradictions, Ewel's expert condemnation of setup tactics, and the city attorney's alleged enabling role trigger an expanded cascade of violations.

14:58 SPEAKER_00: United States Constitution and federal law include the First Amendment free exercise, speech and association, the expectation of public flyers slash announcements, and targeting for private worship impose unconstitutional burdens, surveillance and harassment based on doctrinal disagreement, exacerbated by McCall's KJV-only views, violates strict scrutiny standards.

15:20 SPEAKER_00: The Fourth Amendment, warrantless welfare checks, traffic stops, and armed entries without probable cause constitute unreasonable searches and seizures, especially when motivated by religious profiling.

15:32 SPEAKER_00: The Fourteenth Amendment, due process and equal protection, tainted investigation, suggestive interviews, deleted evidence, bias affecting judgment, selective enforcement, and biased proceedings deprived fair trial rights.

15:46 SPEAKER_00: 42 U.S.C.

15:47 SPEAKER_00: Section 1983 provides civil remedies against officials, including legal advisors, for these deprivations.

15:55 SPEAKER_00: Washington State Constitution and statutes include Article 1, Section 11, Religious Freedom, Explicit Molestation via Harassment and Investigation Based on Faith Nonconformity.

16:05 SPEAKER_00: Article 1, Section 3, Due Process, and Article 1, Section 7, Privacy, Intrusions into Private Religious Affairs Without Lawful Authority.

16:14 SPEAKER_00: Article 1, Section 12, Privileges and Immunities Favoring Normal Churches While Burdening This One.

16:19 SPEAKER_00: RCW 42.60, Religious Freedom and Law Enforcement, Prohibits Collecting/acting on Religious Affiliation Data, Absent Narrow Criminal Nexus Blatantly Violated.

16:31 SPEAKER_00: RCW 9A.80.

16:34 SPEAKER_00: 010 Official Misconduct.

16:37 SPEAKER_00: Knowing violations of duty through bias-driven policing potentially compounded by legal counsel that failed to halt or disclose abuses.

16:43 SPEAKER_00: These compounded across years, infecting the entire process and raising questions about whether city legal leadership actively shielded violations.

Human Cost And Reform Demands

16:52 SPEAKER_00: The human cost, detailed extensively on the archive and corroborated in court filings, is devastating.

16:58 SPEAKER_00: Malcolm Frazier imprisoned, families fractured, the church's bookstore and publishing operations collapsed, community outreach, including newspaper ads and service, halted, and the entire congregation forced to relocate from Enum Claw.

17:12 SPEAKER_00: McCall's promotion and continued service, despite Bradyless's status and judicial misconduct findings, alongside Reynolds, long tenure and alleged complicity in oversight failures, and the resignation of McCall's son for mishandling evidence, erode public trust and signal a culture of impunity in Enum Claw's interconnected power structure.

17:32 SPEAKER_00: Broader ramifications include a chilling effect on religious liberty statewide.

17:36 SPEAKER_00: This echoes historical targeting of cults, but has no place today.

17:40 SPEAKER_00: Nuances exist.

17:42 SPEAKER_00: Child protection remains paramount, but when bias, scripting, tampering, courtroom lies, suggestive setup, interviewing, per Dr.

17:51 SPEAKER_00: Ewell, and institutional enabling taint the process, justice is perverted.

17:57 SPEAKER_00: Edge cases, genuine criminal enterprises or land use disputes, demand specific facts and neutral oversight, not blanket religious litmus tests, developmental agendas, or credibility-flagged investigators shielded by entrenched attorneys.

18:13 SPEAKER_00: Reforms are urgent.

18:14 SPEAKER_00: Mandatory religious liberty and interview training, independent oversight, mandatory recording retention, full Brady compliance, term limits or rotation for city attorneys and small jurisdictions, and aggressive Section 1983 slash state misconduct actions.

18:32 SPEAKER_00: The Washington Attorney General, King County, and U.S.

18:36 SPEAKER_00: DOJ should probe Enum Claw PD and legal office patterns.

18:40 SPEAKER_00: Detective Grant McCall's own words, they just came in, condemn him, as do court-admitted misconduct findings, bias emails, suggestive interviews, brady-list status, internal department controversies, his KJV-only theological lens, courtroom contradictions, Yule's expert exposure of setup tactics, and the city attorney's documented role in local power dynamics and alleged whitewashing.

19:06 SPEAKER_00: In a free republic, religious groups need not announce themselves to the state, nor should city legal officials enable or ignore the resulting abuses.

19:14 SPEAKER_00: When police, prosecutors, and attorneys forget that, and courts and departments enable it, the result is not safety, but tyranny.

19:22 SPEAKER_00: Enum Clause scandal, as exhaustively documented by those directly impacted and reflected in public trials, demands full accountability.

19:30 SPEAKER_00: The rule of law, religious liberty, and basic human dignity hang in the balance.

Named Officials And Public Records Trail

19:35 SPEAKER_00: Authorities, judges, prosecutors, and city officials involved.

19:39 SPEAKER_00: Judges include Judge Beth M.

19:41 SPEAKER_00: Andrus, pretrial rulings, misconduct findings regarding McCall, whitewashing of lies in hearings, Judge Laurie K.

19:48 SPEAKER_00: Smith, presiding over trial and sentencing, notably restricted reading of Washington State Constitution to the jury, and other King County and appellate judges involved in appeals and related proceedings.

19:59 SPEAKER_00: Prosecutors, King County slash involved in case include Prosecutor Mark Larson, Prosecutor Lisa Johnson, Prosecutor Nicole Weston, Prosecutor Rich Anderson, Prosecutor Jason Simmons, Prosecutor Lisa Mannion, and additional King County prosecutors office personnel.

20:15 SPEAKER_00: Enum Claw City officials and police leadership include City Attorney Mike Reynolds, long-serving legal advisor to PD and City, also acted as city administrator, and police leadership during tenure, e.g., Captain Bob Hubler, referenced in promotions and matters around 2017 to 2019.

20:35 SPEAKER_00: Current Enum Clause City Council members, as of recent records, include Corey Koopman Fraser, January Martinell, Sabrina Solmanson Waterhouse, Chancellor Fleur, Brody Smith, Amber Stanley, and Ed Sorton.

20:48 SPEAKER_00: Notable additional officers in Brady slash Giglio list mentions include Officer Tony Ryan, Anthony J.

20:54 SPEAKER_00: Ryan, involved in 2010 squad room confrontation with McCall.

20:58 SPEAKER_00: Both McCall and Ryan are listed on the Enam Claw PD Brady slash Giglio list of officers with credibility issues.

21:06 SPEAKER_00: McCall's son also served in the department before resigning from his handling evidence.

21:11 SPEAKER_00: McCall's collaboration with Athena Dean in advancing accusations further illustrates coordinated targeting.

21:17 SPEAKER_00: This interconnected network of authorities oversaw or enabled the events detailed above.

21:22 SPEAKER_00: Comprehensive historical details are available via public records requests or city archives.

21:28 SPEAKER_00: For more evidence, see www.enamclaw.com or www.consider.info, the consider podcast.

Repentance Disclaimer And Show Mission

21:38 SPEAKER_00: Examining today's wisdom, folly, and madness disclaimer the Consider Podcast and any associated activity are concerned only with repentance.

21:47 SPEAKER_00: Repentance is the starting and end goal.

21:50 SPEAKER_00: Because the Consider Podcast fears God, we seek to warn all men and women.

21:54 SPEAKER_00: The views and interpretations expressed on the Consider Podcast or any affiliated work are Are personal conclusions formed after first picking up a cross and then, with deep prayer and serious reasoning, examining available evidence, scriptures, and history.

22:11 SPEAKER_00: They do not represent any official position of any church, denomination, organization, or institution.

22:19 SPEAKER_00: Listeners are strongly encouraged to search the scriptures daily to test everything by hating their own lives and being crucified to their own thoughts and opinions, thus reaching a spirit-led conviction concerning the truth.

22:32 SPEAKER_00: See First Thessalonians chapter 5, verse 21, Acts Chapter 17, verse 11, and John Chapter 12, verse 25.

22:40 SPEAKER_00: In short, all views are opinions expressed by God's righteousness, holiness, and self-discipline.

22:47 SPEAKER_00: The Consider Podcast examining today's wisdom, folly, and madness at Enumclaw.com or www.consider.info.

22:57 SPEAKER_00: Any reference to persecution or persecution by prosecution reflects the opinions and possible first hand accounts of those individuals who were witnesses to and lived through the terrible events described, including what they experienced from systemic corruptions.

Expert Breaks Down The Interview

23:14 SPEAKER_03: And every allegation comes from the detective.

23:27 SPEAKER_03: Well, my uh my overall uh comment was that this is uh an absolutely terrible interview.

23:35 SPEAKER_03: There are many leading questions in this interview uh with the interviewer providing information as opposed to obtaining it.

23:44 SPEAKER_03: Is I'm just so sorry that this kind of poor quality interviewing is going on in the 21st century.

23:50 SPEAKER_03: We don't need this.

23:51 SPEAKER_03: What we need are good quality interviews to be done where where whether she's a victim or not, whether she gets to tell her story so we can evaluate her story instead of it all being led by what the officer is looking for.

24:05 SPEAKER_03: And that's what I'm I'm an advocate for good investigation, uh not for one side or the other in this case.

24:14 SPEAKER_03: If I did an interview like this, we would know what uh her version of events is from this.

24:22 SPEAKER_03: We have no idea.

24:24 SPEAKER_03: Uh where were they when these alleged acts uh uh occurred and and you know how did they unfold?

24:32 SPEAKER_03: There's nothing here.

24:33 SPEAKER_03: Uh a proper interview, we'd have a narrative.

24:36 SPEAKER_03: We'd we'd know whether this is based, we'd be in a much better position to know whether this is based on experience or invention or responding to the leading nature of these questions.

24:48 SPEAKER_01: Dr.

24:48 SPEAKER_01: Ewell, who provided most of the information in this interview?

24:54 SPEAKER_01: Was it Detective McCall?

24:57 SPEAKER_03: The detective provided a lot of the critical information.

25:02 SPEAKER_01: Did Detective McCall ever give an opportunity for a narrative response?

25:08 SPEAKER_03: No.

25:10 SPEAKER_01: Dr.

25:10 SPEAKER_01: Yule, was this an investigative interview?

25:15 SPEAKER_03: This was an interview to confirm what the detective thought or the investigator thought had happened, not to investigate what may or may not have happened.

25:26 SPEAKER_01: Does this interview adhere to the basic tenets of the Washington state guidelines?

25:31 SPEAKER_03: No.

25:34 SPEAKER_03: I mean, this entire interview is not acceptable.

25:37 SPEAKER_03: Every single act, alleged act, is suggested first by the officer and uh um every act?

25:46 SPEAKER_03: Yes, every act.

25:48 SPEAKER_03: So that just talks about touching the chest and touching the crotch first.

25:53 SPEAKER_03: He talks about uh him touching, or excuse me, the complainant touching the accused first.

25:59 SPEAKER_03: Okay, talks about penetration first.

26:02 SPEAKER_01: You said you said that he I would ask that the counsel give the witness an opportunity to finish his answer before he asks another question.

26:10 SPEAKER_03: Go ahead.

26:11 SPEAKER_03: My apologies, Doctor.

26:13 SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm still trying to respond to your question, and you say, tell me uh what happened then.

26:18 SPEAKER_03: Uh is that an okay question?

26:20 SPEAKER_03: And my answer is yes, and in fact, that should have been the question that was asked right at the front of this interview.

26:28 SPEAKER_03: Uh, you said the accused came in the room and touched you, tell me what happened.

26:33 SPEAKER_03: And that should have been giving this complainant a chance to tell her story, but instead, everything gets led here.

26:43 SPEAKER_03: She never gets a chance to tell her version of events, except in response to his specific suggestions, such as, did he get you to touch him?

26:54 SPEAKER_03: And every allegation comes from the detective.

26:59 SPEAKER_03: Uh he's the one who suggests um all of the things that happen, and she either agrees or disagrees with them, but um she's not she isn't right from the get-go, he tells her why she's there and what the allegations are.

27:18 SPEAKER_03: She says you've been molested, uh, that it happened with somebody living in your house, it happened at a certain time ago.

27:26 SPEAKER_03: He shouldn't be giving that information.

27:28 SPEAKER_03: He should be saying, Why are you here today?

27:31 SPEAKER_03: I don't know this interviewee, so I don't know how susceptible she is or is not to suggestion.

27:36 SPEAKER_03: I can say that this is how, if you wanted to do an interview to make suggestions to a complainant, this is how to do it.